Mecha Heroes - Sign-Up and Concept Discussion Thread

[Willy Vereb]

Well, I always go via the "accept what I see" assumption.
I see mecha that appears to be several hundred tons heavy, unaerodynamic, wingless yet capable of flight.
Then of course that means that despite the above handicaps the mecha is capable of flight.
It does help that many mechs are capable of pulling impossible stunts in the air that would reasonably require triple digit G accelerations if not above.
So they probably accomplish this via brute force.
With sufficient thrust things like mass and air drag become less relevant.

And there are tons of other engineering issues that comes with the great mass and humanoid shape. Mechas just plainly ignore these in general.

[Xamusel]

Yeah, things like Plot Armor in different mecha shows make it tough to say how heavy a mech is, like, say, in Gundam Wing.

Isn't the plot armor (Gundanium in Wing) four times stronger than regular Titanium but somewhere around half the weight? Or am I mis-remembering?

[Cherry Lover]

Well, I always go via the "accept what I see" assumption.
I see mecha that appears to be several hundred tons heavy, unaerodynamic, wingless yet capable of flight.
Then of course that means that despite the above handicaps the mecha is capable of flight.
It does help that many mechs are capable of pulling impossible stunts in the air that would reasonably require triple digit G accelerations if not above.
So they probably accomplish this via brute force.
With sufficient thrust things like mass and air drag become less relevant.

And there are tons of other engineering issues that comes with the great mass and humanoid shape. Mechas just plainly ignore these in general.

Yes, but my point is that, if you accept that, then you should also accept the unrealistically low weight. Because, honestly, it is considerably easier to reduce the weight of something beyond what we are currently capable of than it is to break basic laws of physics regarding flight....

[Willy Vereb]

With sufficient thrust even a solid block of steel can fly.
There's nothing too magical about it aside from how you get the power.
And seriously fiction an breaking the rules of physics come hand in hand.
I would rather accept that instead of believing in a blatant lie with evidence proving the opposite.

[Cherry Lover]

How do you know that these mechas aren't made from extremely light materials? It's just as plausible as inventing some new propulsion system that allows a thousand-ton humanoid with no aerodynamics to fly.

If you're going to accept breaking the rules of physics then you shouldn't do so selectively. If it's possible for a block of steel to fly then it's possible for a giant mecha to weigh as little as a fighter jet even with armour and the like.

[Willy Vereb]

Nah, such lightweight materials would draw in even more issues which you appear to be ignoring here.
And then there's the fact that the stated components of mechs are generally just ordinary elements like steel titanium or some type of carbon derivate. Those would weight what you can expect of them.
Plus the firepower of even the most conventional-looking weapons in mech fictions tend to be massively exaggreviated.
Simple missiles and Bazooka shots in UC Gundam occasionally put the MOAB to shame, despite being magnitudes smaller in size.
Or a mecha suddenly putting to stop when previously it was flying faster than 10km/s.
So idea of ridiculous amount of thrust is right in their valley.
When you actually look into it in detail, fiction commits outright homicide on the rule of physics.
Like I said just go with the ride and accept what you see.

[Cherry Lover]

The thing is, if you're saying "ignore the laws of physics", then that includes mass, as demonstrated by the canonically-given masses. You can't say "ignore the laws of physics except the ones that I like", either you take notice of them all or you ignore them all.

Plus, if an F-16 can weigh that little, why not a Gundam?

[Willy Vereb]

You may want to read this thread again.
Because you just went back to the starting point of the debate.

[Xamusel]

Cherry, while you're offering good points, I should mention that each Gundam is different depending on the timeline (and even when in the timeline). For instance, the fictional alloy Gundanium can only be made in stable gravity spots in Earth's orbit, where the Space Colonies are found. This alloy is what allows a Gundam to move and act like it should (really, really, really high-performance Mobile Suit) while still being as strong as it is.

If my memory serves right, Gundanium is the step above Neo Titanium, which is twice as strong (and heavy) as regular Titanium. Gundanium, however, is more like four times the strength of regular Titanium and something like half the weight... or I could be off on the weight.

[Willy Vereb]

Also I'd like to add Mike, that simply accepting mechas have unreasonably light mass won't solve too many problems.
Namely that their performance is still just flat ridiculous.
So there's no point denying the weight such construct would realistically have.

It's like trying to fix a single letter in an essay full of grammatical errors.


But I guess there's also a confusion regarding what we see as "truth" here.

You appear to take in the "official" statement on the mecha's weight as absolute.
I look at the mecha, take the various details into account and then approximate how much such machine would weight.
Because visual representation and such are a much more integral part of a fiction. Like I said, I take in what I actually see.

Anyways, I think this discussion went on for long.
We should be getting back to topic.

[Xamusel]

Yeah, good idea, let's get back on topic.

How about we determine the ultimate enemies of the RP?

[Willy Vereb]

Well, not sure of the true ultimate enemies.
But we can discuss the "initial" enemy.
In true SRW fashion the faction first faced in the game will be a "warm up" compared to what the other enemies are.
Both gameplay and somewhat even plot-wise.

So yeah, the enemy.

First question, what would it be?
Aliens or a human faction?
And if human, is this faction something players can join to or something completely antagonistic?

[Xamusel]

Hmm... what about the Vajra? I mean, those alien bug-like things from Macross Frontier.

If that doesn't work, what about the Principality of Zeon (before the events of the One Week War)?

[Willy Vereb]

Like I said we don't need to pick an already existing fictional race/faction.
Actually, we mustn't.
It's better if we come up with an original one.

Albeit either the Vajra or the Zeon could be an inspiration for it.
Or in case of a weird situation, both.

Personally I'd rather support some sort of alien invaders instead of a human one.
An opposing human faction can lead to complication right from the beginning. Which might not be the best start.
Of course, this is my opinion.
We can have an enemy like Zeon if you guys really want to.

[Xamusel]

I get what you mean by that. I really do.

Hmm... so, if the enemies aren't to be pre-made, then... what do we do about it?

I can think of an enemy force idea. A military comprised primarily of aquatic aliens that have a Zeon-like country that they serve... with water-filled cockpits for their units.