role playing ideas thread

[Cherry Lover]

Hmm, I see. Is the Chaos side actually reasonable, or is it some stupid "survival of the fittest" thing that doesn't actually give freedom to anyone but the strong?

[lantzblades]

In some iterations it's reasonable, others not. Chaos often is the survival of the fittest. Although comparatively it's not as bad as some other objectives. Law and chaos are often divided between angels and demons respectively (although in smt every creature is under the general heading of demon, don't ask me why) as such I find the neutral path best for the human view point.

[Cherry Lover]

Well, personally, as someone who would naturally come across as "Chaotic", I don't in any way associate that with "survival of the fittest", but rather with people actually being vaguely decent towards each other without needing some arbitrary authority to order them around.

[KAIZA]

In SMT, both Chaos and Law have their upsides and downsides.

Chaos tends to advocate free will and making one's own path in life. On the flipside, it does so through "might makes right" and "survival of the fittest", where the strong can do whatever they want. Law, on the other hand, advocates peace and equality. Downside is, it does so by removing free will and through merciless judgement.

Obviously, since either side can be your enemy in the games, you tend to see the extremes more often than not, but you do see lesser examples of each one occassionally.

Neutral, which is often treated as the "true" route and is right in the middle of the two, is the one that tries to find a balance between their ideologies, and/or works towards what's best for mankind in light of the other two extremes.

At least, that's how I interpret them.

[Cherry Lover]

Well, sure, but that's a deeply misleading and unfair definition of "Chaotic". Not wanting order does not in any way mean "survival of the fittest" or "might makes right", it just means not deferring to some arbitrary dictator just because he claims to have the power to order you around.

[KAIZA]

Perhaps, but remember you're dealing with demons on the Chaos side, and angels in the Law side.

[Cherry Lover]

Except that the Law side is really obviously evil, and every bit as bad as if not worse than the Chaos side....

[Soldat der Trauer]

I would be more interested if PCs had the option of actually being able to create their own individual factions a la the Reason mechanic from Nocturne.

[KAIZA]

Except that the Law side is really obviously evil, and every bit as bad as if not worse than the Chaos side....

Not necessarily; it depends on the game, and the character in question. The removal of free will is usually just YHWH's schtick, and he's pretty much the extreme. Rest of Law tends to be more about the judgement and such, and maintaining order at all costs.

Remember, it's all about extremes and the dangers therein. For example, YHWH is the main villain in SMTII, even for the Law side. Hence why Neutral tends to be seen as the true route, since it works on balance. Also, the Good/Neutral/Evil scale is separate from the other scale.

[lantzblades]

@Sol

if you guys wanted that then I wouldn't have a problem using that mechanic. I know basically every smt game out (I'm fairly certain I own all the ones released in the west, if not the original version then a port there of)

biggest fan of DDS 1, Nocturne, Devil survivor over clocked and the persona series (4 more than 3, although I own all the versions of both)

@Kaiza

well said, it's certainly a matter of degrees.

[Cherry Lover]

Except that the Law side is really obviously evil, and every bit as bad as if not worse than the Chaos side....

Not necessarily; it depends on the game, and the character in question. The removal of free will is usually just YHWH's schtick, and he's pretty much the extreme. Rest of Law tends to be more about the judgement and such, and maintaining order at all costs.

Remember, it's all about extremes and the dangers therein. For example, YHWH is the main villain in SMTII, even for the Law side. Hence why Neutral tends to be seen as the true route, since it works on balance. Also, the Good/Neutral/Evil scale is separate from the other scale.

Well, I would argue that "maintaining order at all costs" is inherently bad. But, then, I am obviously Chaotic, so....

@Sol

if you guys wanted that then I wouldn't have a problem using that mechanic. I know basically every smt game out (I'm fairly certain I own all the ones released in the west, if not the original version then a port there of)

biggest fan of DDS 1, Nocturne, Devil survivor over clocked and the persona series (4 more than 3, although I own all the versions of both)

I suspect some kind of "create your own idea" thing would be better, because both the Chaos and Law factions seem obviously idiotic to me, so I can't see why anyone would choose them over the neutral faction. And, if I believe that, then there is obviously something wrong with the Chaos faction at very least.

[lantzblades]

Create your own idea is precisely how Nocturne worked. A reason is a rule or law by which the new world would be created and self govern it's existence. I think it would be best for player involvement.

the extremes of law and chaos are indeed unpalatable for the most part but their moderate counterparts are more well received by whomsoever falls in the general law or chaos rings.

[Cherry Lover]

Create your own idea is precisely how Nocturne worked. A reason is a rule or law by which the new world would be created and self govern it's existence. I think it would be best for player involvement.

Yes, most likely, although that presumably means we would be fighting each other.

the extremes of law and chaos are indeed unpalatable for the most part but their moderate counterparts are more well received by whomsoever falls in the general law or chaos rings.

What would be the more moderate form of Chaos?

[Soldat der Trauer]

@Mike:

>Musubi -- "I am the center of the world."

Musubi is the reason of Isamu Nitta. It is based on solitude and isolation. The self is absolute, and every living being would live in an independent world, completely separate from all other living beings. The individual could use their mind to shape their world at will into their own personal paradise, without consequences or unwelcome interference of others. The name Musubi may possibly refer to the mystical power of becoming or of creation in Shinto religion. It is an isolationistic, solitary reason which resembles the philosophy of René Descartes.

Although in Nocturne, this Reason is said to be based off Neutral, but it's still influenced enough by Chaos that you could make an argument for it. :V

[lantzblades]

Well, true, you would likely come to blows if you supported opposite ideals but that's true of anything, I have some ideas if you wanted to avoid pvp stuff.

a moderate interpretation of chaos would be restoration of the world while keeping the demons around. Or, as Sol said.