General Nasuverse Lore/Character/Serious Canon Discussion Thread

[Cherry Lover]

Besides, you can be a hero without becoming a Heroic Spirit, geez. You just can't be summoned as a Servant.

Yeah, this.

Shirou's life goal has never been "become a heroic spirit", he just wants to be a hero. The two are not the same thing, as can be seen by the number of modern heroes who wouldn't count. He can still quite easily fulfill his goal in life without ending up as a heroic spirit, and not ending up as a heroic spirit does not mean he has "failed", because Shirou was never looking for recognition, he just wants to be able to save people.

[Brahmastra]

Whether not Shirou becomes a Heroic Spirit has literally nothing to do with the story, it's meaning or Shirou's goal. Therefor, why bother?

[Kat]

A good example of MODERN Heroic Spirit would be Enola Gay, the very first bomber ever to drop a nuke.

Expect a huge fame boost when summoned in Japan :p

Apollo 11 could be a Heroic Spirit as well. Along with Sputnik.

Since in the modern age it is technology that makes stuff possible for people, not their individual prowess, it is natural that there is no human non-CG Heroic Spirits anymore.

[Cherry Lover]

Well, that isn't necessarily the case, though. A modern magus could still realistically do things through their own prowess, they just choose not to.

[Kat]

But using magecraft is exactly like using technology. Both achieve things possible in the grand scheme of things.

[Cherry Lover]

Yeah, but killing someone with an Excaliblast is also doing something which is possible in other ways. Saber still counts as a Heroic Spirit.

[Kat]

Excalibur is a Divine Construct made by fae, as well as Avalon. And she is a human from early Age of Man.

[Brahmastra]

Yeah, but killing someone with an Excaliblast is also doing something which is possible in other ways. Saber still counts as a Heroic Spirit.

You are seriously implicating that killing people and not the swinging-fae-blade-that-can-shoot-giant-blasts-of-kinetic-prana around and fae-sheath-of-i-ignore-your-stuff-because-lol is why Saber is a Heroic Spirit? Seriously? I hate Saber and all but that is so far off.

[Cherry Lover]

My point is that the argument "well, they didn't achieve the impossible" is stupid because no-one really "achieves the impossible". They just achieve the really-damn-unlikely....

And, Saber possessing a powerful sword and scabbard isn't why she's in the Throne. If it was then it would be the sword taking the place. She herself has to have done something with the sword in order to be eligible.

[Umbra of Chaos]

She was also the king of Britain, gets a prophecy about her returning, saved said kingdom several times, and fought wars along with her knights. Shirou just doesn't have the ability to pull off something that legendary. Unless he goes and solos Primate Murder where enough people can see him to start the legend he isn't getting anywhere.

[Kat]

Damn right. Besides, for example Shiki won't be HS even if he killed goddamn Nero. Shirou cannot top that.

[Cherry Lover]

Well, it's a matter of secrecy. To be a Heroic Spirit, you have to be known about, and Shiki isn't. I think it is unlikely that Shirou would become well-known enough to do it, but not necessarily impossible (if some sort of big magical war were to happen, for example). And, as Lantz has pointed out previously, if something is possible, however unlikely, then the fact that the Nasuverse is a Multiverse means that it probably has happened somewhere.

I'm not saying that Shirou has become a HS somewhere, but I don't think we can absolutely 100% rule it out. It's just not something that is likely to happen very often if at all.

[Brahmastra]

I'm not saying that Shirou has become a HS somewhere, but I don't think we can absolutely 100% rule it out. It's just not something that is likely to happen very often if at all.

All the points I, Umbra and X have listed for the last 2 pages rule it out 100%. Nothing Shirou does is in any way special. He's just good at Projection and is in a situation where he can abuse that to repeatedly make legendary weaponry.

[Umbra of Chaos]

Well, it's a matter of secrecy. To be a Heroic Spirit, you have to be known about, and Shiki isn't. I think it is unlikely that Shirou would become well-known enough to do it, but not necessarily impossible (if some sort of big magical war were to happen, for example). And, as Lantz has pointed out previously, if something is possible, however unlikely, then the fact that the Nasuverse is a Multiverse means that it probably has happened somewhere.

I'm not saying that Shirou has become a HS somewhere, but I don't think we can absolutely 100% rule it out. It's just not something that is likely to happen very often if at all.

Sure. In some reality maybe the AoG lasted longer and Shirou became a HS that way but it wouldn't be Emiya Shirou. Wouldn't be the kid that participated in the 5th GW.  Even if there was a full blown war there are still people there are many people in the Nasuverse more important and famous than Shirou. There is nothing unique or original about Shirou other than his RM and there are several people with that as well. In fact even UBW is copying other weapons. Nothing about him is unique enough to be HS material.

[Cherry Lover]

There being other people who are more important or famous than Shirou doesn't necessarily mean Shirou cannot become a hero above them. Most heroes in the real world are not important prior to becoming a hero.