Author Topic: Of Swords and Sorcery (Chronological edition discussion)  (Read 33354 times)

Cherry Lover

  • The Maintainer
  • SE.RA.PH
  • **********
  • Posts: 6375
    • View Profile
Re: Of Swords and Sorcery (Chronological edition discussion)
« Reply #90 on: May 06, 2014, 12:15:33 AM »
Yeah, to be fair, we know that, canonically, things like Magical Girls exist somewhere in the Nasuverse multiverse, so there are definitely some weird AUs out there....

YOLF

  • Sir Bonesington
  • Global Moderator
  • Servant
  • **********
  • Posts: 2380
    • View Profile
Re: Of Swords and Sorcery (Chronological edition discussion)
« Reply #91 on: May 06, 2014, 12:57:03 AM »
Take Prisma Illya with a pinch of salt as far as canonicity is concerned.

Unless you just meant Mahou Shoujo Kaleido Ruby Rin as she shows up in FHA. I'd still take it with a pinch of salt.
[13:38:37] Helligator: Depends on the god, but gods by definition in Nasuverse are strong because they have divine authority.
[13:38:48] Kat: Even the toilet god?
[13:38:56] Helligator: No one worships toilets.
[13:39:00] Helligator: Don't be a shitlord.

[04:32:08] Helligator: I can't make dragons in power armor like this

[19:50:12] francobull III: [...] why are you being all assive aggressive?

[23:32:37] Helligator: use the narrative as a means to convey an interesting story and cool conflicts with the openness you're allowed
[23:32:43] Helligator: not to CHEAT stories and conflicts

Alice

  • Administrator
  • Master
  • **********
  • Posts: 1703
    • View Profile
Re: Of Swords and Sorcery (Chronological edition discussion)
« Reply #92 on: May 06, 2014, 01:03:14 AM »
Yeah, to be fair, we know that, canonically, things like Magical Girls exist somewhere in the Nasuverse multiverse, so there are definitely some weird AUs out there....

Except that's still partially the result of the Kaleido sticks messing around with their wielders out of spite, plus still makes sense(...-ish) in the context of the greater Nasuverse. Plus it's not taken completely seriously. A lot of the stuff in SaS though just does not gel though, nor would it in most continuities for that matter.

If weird stuff happens in a story, suspension of disbelief has to remain intact or the weird stuff comes off as completely implausible and thus any immersion is lost. All the time is spent questioning what the hell is going on and why and being frustrated about how ridiculous it seems instead of actually enjoying the story.

It's fine to write for yourself, but you have to have at least some consideration for your readers. The problem is that lantz isn't really considering what they would enjoy, just projecting what he enjoys and comes to the conclusion that either everyone thinks the same or those that don't just don't "appreciate" what he's written. Which is a huge problem.

That's why there's a lot of frustration with lantz and his work even though people would be better inclined to ignore it. It unintentionally creates a sense of being insulted and belittled for the readers, and combined with lantz's attitude towards criticism, this makes people angry, to the point of becoming hostile.

...And then here we are now.

lantz, your problem is that while you (occasionally) listen to criticism, you don't really listen to it. That's why people have become so frustrated and even outright hostile. If you want this to stop, you actually need to heed what people say and stop dismissing it as "attacks."

Even the harshly worded of criticism can have value, after all, if it leads you to improve, but you don't even take the majority of criticism into account because you are way too quick to dismiss it as an "attack." If you'd stop that, people would honestly be more receptive towards you, assuming those bridges haven't already been burned by people being this frustrated for this long.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2014, 01:04:12 AM by Alice »

Besides running the forum, I can provide avatars for people as well~
This is my mod voice. ...Most of the time anyway.

Cherry Lover

  • The Maintainer
  • SE.RA.PH
  • **********
  • Posts: 6375
    • View Profile
Re: Of Swords and Sorcery (Chronological edition discussion)
« Reply #93 on: May 06, 2014, 01:13:52 AM »
Except that's still partially the result of the Kaleido sticks messing around with their wielders out of spite, plus still makes sense(...-ish) in the context of the greater Nasuverse. Plus it's not taken completely seriously. A lot of the stuff in SaS though just does not gel though, nor would it in most continuities for that matter.

Yeah, and the Kaleidostick works by taking AU versions of the wielder. Which means that, somewhere, there is a universe where Rin is a Magical Girl....

Alice

  • Administrator
  • Master
  • **********
  • Posts: 1703
    • View Profile
Re: Of Swords and Sorcery (Chronological edition discussion)
« Reply #94 on: May 06, 2014, 01:33:09 AM »
That's not actually how that works. The form taken is purely trolling by Ruby. It's the prana that's taken from alternate universes.

Besides running the forum, I can provide avatars for people as well~
This is my mod voice. ...Most of the time anyway.

lantzblades

  • Black King of the round table
  • Alter Ego
  • *******
  • Posts: 3676
  • GM
    • View Profile
Re: Of Swords and Sorcery (Chronological edition discussion)
« Reply #95 on: May 06, 2014, 02:20:32 AM »
Ok Alice, by your logic I should have Sakura die unceremoniously with absolutely no guilt on MOS Shirou. Obviously I would never do that but that's the criticisms some people give regarding Sakura.

Proper criticism needs no violence or vulgarity, I'll never waver on that principle Alice. I listen to critics Alice, among them have been Kaiza, Altima, DP, RoadBuster, Elf, there's more than just those as well. I'm not close minded by any stretch, I just don't cave and take every piece of advice as necessary because I am not here to please everyone, nor would ever try.

the story has different moments, funny, warm, painful and yes ridiculous because in an infinite number of realities some are completely different or outright crazy. If you don't like it then don't read it.

his reality is much more conventional in regards to the Nasuverse rules, temporal events aside.

Kat

  • Moon Cancer
  • ********
  • Posts: 4215
    • View Profile
Re: Of Swords and Sorcery (Chronological edition discussion)
« Reply #96 on: May 06, 2014, 11:04:46 AM »
It's not problem about being bizarre, the problem lies in Satoshi being overpowered to the point he makes more famous Sues and Stus like Samuel Haight blush. Avalon alone makes story featuring of him devoid of suspense, not to mention other overpowered skills like reviving death (True Ressurection is impossible in Nasuverse under but most exceptional circumstances).

Quote
I'm not close minded by any stretch, I just don't cave and take every piece of advice as necessary because I am not here to please everyone, nor would ever try.

Everyone has his own style, but if the criticism is objective and one doesn't accept it, one loses respect of the audience. If most of people keep pointing out at the same flaws for YEARS, it's more probable they are in right than the author.

And once again, about the multiverse fallacy. In Nasuverse, not everything is possible. Kotomine ALWAYS dies at the conclusion of 5th Grail War, whether he wins or not.

lantzblades

  • Black King of the round table
  • Alter Ego
  • *******
  • Posts: 3676
  • GM
    • View Profile
Re: Of Swords and Sorcery (Chronological edition discussion)
« Reply #97 on: May 06, 2014, 11:34:27 AM »
I don't buy your opinion on the multiverse. Satoshi isn't overpowered and in current medicine you can revive someone before brain death. So I don't buy his outward healing being OP. He's not a Mary sue, I find that word a disgusting and lazy (as well as hateful) term which only trolls and idiots use. It is utterly the worse thing to say because beyond being insulting it is by no means helpful. It says nothing other than that the speaker is a loudmouth twat unable to actually explain an issue.

Umbra of Chaos

  • Not Actually a Mod
  • Alter Ego
  • *******
  • Posts: 3090
    • View Profile
Re: Of Swords and Sorcery (Chronological edition discussion)
« Reply #98 on: May 06, 2014, 11:51:34 AM »
Lantz, Kat's view on the multiverse in the Nasuverse isn't an opinion. If Kotomine always dies at the end of the 5th HGW then there must be other constants. Some things cannot be changed.

Kat

  • Moon Cancer
  • ********
  • Posts: 4215
    • View Profile
Re: Of Swords and Sorcery (Chronological edition discussion)
« Reply #99 on: May 06, 2014, 12:02:51 PM »
Quote
only trolls and idiots use.

Except it's established term in a larger fan fiction writing community which even Wikipedia acknowledges. Which characteristics Satoshi unfortunately meets at least partly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue

Quote
n current medicine you can revive someone before brain death

You overestimate modern medicine if you think it can pull off feats like Avalon or Sorceries.

Quote
loudmouth twat

Rude.

lantzblades

  • Black King of the round table
  • Alter Ego
  • *******
  • Posts: 3676
  • GM
    • View Profile
Re: Of Swords and Sorcery (Chronological edition discussion)
« Reply #100 on: May 06, 2014, 12:09:30 PM »
Sorry Umbra but the many worlds theory accounts for basically every variable being explored and as such I can't believe anything is one hundred percent fixed. What if there's no grail war? It's just one example but there kirei would live.

I don't recall Nasu busting out WoG on physics, quantum mechanics, quantum physics and what is or is not possible period within the Nasuverse or any parallel world as such. Show me a word of god that says 100% impossible for Kirei to live, show me that alternate worlds, time travel, healing magical or otherwise will not work. If you can't. Umbra then I have the right to my interpretation.

Umbra of Chaos

  • Not Actually a Mod
  • Alter Ego
  • *******
  • Posts: 3090
    • View Profile
Re: Of Swords and Sorcery (Chronological edition discussion)
« Reply #101 on: May 06, 2014, 12:21:03 PM »
Hollow Ataraxia. Within the dream world Avenger creates he can generate anything no matter how small the chance of it happening is. Kirei is not in HA because he cannot survive after the 5th HGW has ended. If there was a chance of Kirei surviving the HGW than he would be in HA, but he isn't .

"Upon surviving the 4th war, that man was promised certain death on the 5th"
-Avenger
« Last Edit: May 06, 2014, 12:23:02 PM by Umbra of Chaos »

Kat

  • Moon Cancer
  • ********
  • Posts: 4215
    • View Profile
Re: Of Swords and Sorcery (Chronological edition discussion)
« Reply #102 on: May 06, 2014, 12:22:34 PM »
Quote
Show me a word of god that says 100% impossible for Kirei to live

Read Fate/Hollow Ataraxia. Avenger explicitly states why Kirei does not appear in the dream world he created, because only possible outcomes can manifest, and Kirei's survival is impossible.

Quote
quantum mechanics, quantum physics

Don't tell me you actually believe that with quantum physics everything is possible. Quantum physics is heavy on probability, and only things possible can happen. Impossible cannot happen. Unfortunately, the belief in quantum physics' omnipotence is the major superstition of 21st century which needs to be rooted out.

Quote
Sorry Umbra but the many worlds theory accounts for basically every variable being explored and as such I can't believe anything is one hundred percent fixed. What if there's no grail war? It's just one example but there kirei would live.

Except Nasu states it clearly. His word outweighs your speculations.

lantzblades

  • Black King of the round table
  • Alter Ego
  • *******
  • Posts: 3676
  • GM
    • View Profile
Re: Of Swords and Sorcery (Chronological edition discussion)
« Reply #103 on: May 06, 2014, 12:42:19 PM »
If you intend on persisting with the opinion that Satoshi is a mary Sue Kat then you might as well go. It's not viable feed back.

Umbra that's a cop out excuse that I just defeated, if the condition for his death is the 5th war and that is removed then he lives. It's a road block condition that I can rattle off hundreds of ways to get around.

if one change occurs we all breathe water, one tiny change. I view things as full not empty, possibility is the key word. However unlikely there's a universe for it if you go far enough and change enough conditions. That's the fun of the multiple worlds concept.

Unfortunately none of you seem to appreciate the concept.

Umbra of Chaos

  • Not Actually a Mod
  • Alter Ego
  • *******
  • Posts: 3090
    • View Profile
Re: Of Swords and Sorcery (Chronological edition discussion)
« Reply #104 on: May 06, 2014, 12:46:36 PM »
Unless Saber destroyed the Grail that will not happen. If Saber does destroy the Grail but Kirei is still soaked his life support from the Grail will still fail which will kill him in time(about the time of the 5th war). If she destroys the Grail before that happens then he will die from his wounds.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2014, 12:47:46 PM by Umbra of Chaos »