The Nasuverse in perspective.

[lantzblades]

The Nasuverse in perspective.

Thought I'd give my perspectives on the characters and so forth. Before I get to it however. These are only my opinions.

Tsukihime.

It's an action mystery drama. On the whole I actually like it more than FSN.

It has three advantages over FSN.
Firstly it seriously concentrates on the heroines, Fsn was more concerned about telling a flowing narrative and as a result lost the freedom of choice which made Tsukihime great, I didn't have to play Ciel's route after Arcuied's, I chose to. More to the point I got to know all the girls much better in Tsukihime.

Secondly the division between Near and far side helped define the characters and give the characters a greater sense of purpose.

Thirdly the number of heroines and important characters is larger, it helps fill out the world.

FSN

Certainly more dynamic than it's predecessor, longer as well but that's it for advantages over Tsukihime.

Is it bad? No, not at all. I just find it to be less than Tsukihime overall.

Whether you agree or not with this opinion the point I have to make should be clear.

Fiction as a whole is subjective, like what you like, hate what you hate but always remember that fiction regardless of what and (especially ) in the case of fan fiction is an adaptive exercise. All the EU star wars and start trek books are technically paid fan fiction, same goes for the TMNT cartoon in the 80's and 90's, that certainly was not the original version of those characters and setting, yet still they are universally recognized by the fans as the TMNT.

My point is everyone has a view point, the process of applying said viewpoint will change the subject of the work. Instead of getting up in arms over fan fiction ( which let's face it is a luxury) or continuity I think we ought to see a story for what it is, instead of what it is not.

Raging over canon or slapping umbrella terms on to stories is pointless. It improves nothing. While I know I'm a minority in thinking these thought I thought it best to express them as they best explain why and how I write.

The thread is for discussion obviously. I only have one rule here.

1) be polite, rudeness, personal attacks and otherwise improper behavior will not be tolerated.

[Kat]

Firstly it seriously concentrates on the heroines, Fsn was more concerned about telling a flowing narrative and as a result lost the freedom of choice which made Tsukihime great, I didn't have to play Ciel's route after Arcuied's, I chose to. More to the point I got to know all the girls much better in Tsukihime.

Secondly the division between Near and far side helped define the characters and give the characters a greater sense of purpose.

Thirdly the number of heroines and important characters is larger, it helps fill out the world.

It does not really concentrate on heroines. Hisui in Hisui route is barely important, so such view is pretty narrow.

Fiction as a whole is subjective, like what you like, hate what you hate but always remember that fiction regardless of what and (especially ) in the case of fan fiction is an adaptive exercise. All the EU star wars and start trek books are technically paid fan fiction, same goes for the TMNT cartoon in the 80's and 90's, that certainly was not the original version of those characters and setting, yet still they are universally recognized by the fans as the TMNT.

Readers may have his own interpretation, but the statements of the creator takes priority. If fan fiction disregards canon facts, it's go against the letter and the spirit of the title.

Could you give us sources whether they are recognized as canon by all?

Raging over canon or slapping umbrella terms on to stories is pointless. It improves nothing. While I know I'm a minority in thinking these thought I thought it best to express them as they best explain why and how I write.

Purity of canon, even if somewhat excessive, is preferable to trampling on the author's work by introducing fanon ideas which are incoherent with his vision.

[lantzblades]

Had Nasu said this is the one and only interpretation I would agree. However Nasu said two things

1) every end is canon

2) certain people can travel between these limitless worlds.

As such he has confirmed the multiverse and opened Pandora's box. Meaning that canon is worthless (at least in the context of a boundary)

[Kat]

It is not worthless because certain things cannot happen. Kotomine always dies in the Fifth War. The Grail gets dismantled after 10 years as per Fate timeline provided by Nasu (which puts canonicity of HF into doubt)

[Umbra of Chaos]

Another thing that cannot be changed is the fact that modern people cannot become Heroic Spirits.

[lantzblades]

Sorry Kat, don't buy it, HF is, as Nasu said, canon.

only in universe one A Umbra.

[Umbra of Chaos]

Do you have anything that says otherwise Lantz? Can you think of any conditions that would make it possible for modern people to become HS other than becoming a CG? A problem you seem to have is stating something can happen without saying how.

[lantzblades]

The sheer fact that a multiverse exists Umbra, the basic nature of the theory say eventually event X will occur to make Z happen. Is it improbable? Hell yes but entirely possible. You'd have to save the planet from death and wipe out all the types single handedly or some such but I've no doubt you'd be labeled a hero for that.

[Umbra of Chaos]

Impossible. The example you have stated cannot be fulfilled. Types are not the supreme beings of their worlds for nothing, and no modern human could ever hope to defeat one unless they're a magus who can use True Magic to draw prana from other worlds. Even then the next one would stomp on you.

[lantzblades]

The attitude you persist upon is one founded squarely in the desire to ignore the abstract concept of success within a boundary that says X is impossible. That's fine if you wish to have that view Umbra, I however do not share such a view.

[Umbra of Chaos]

Lantz the success you are trying to say could happen is not possible. Modern people cannot become HS because they need to fulfill three conditions.

1- Legendary feat
2- Recognition
3- Being, in some way, unique
The only one capable of replicating that feat, in other words.
-Bridgeburner90

Modern people simply cannot fulfill do this.

[lantzblades]

A legendary feat needs an absolute definition before you say it's impossible.

Recognition in the information age would be fairly easy

three is impossible to prove or deny without data.

[Umbra of Chaos]

Taking Gil for example.
1. He established a worldwide rule. Certainly legendary.
2. Everyone knew who Gil was, and watched him spit in the face of gods.
3. No one has ever achieved what he did.

[Lycodrake]

I don't understand what the commentary on SW, ST, and TMNT anfiction has to do with anything - other than that this was posted in the fanfic section of the forum.

And "multiverse" doesn't prove you are correct about modern Heroic Spirits - the Throne of Heroes is outside the bounds of time and space, and the rules/guidelines for getting there are quite specific.
In addition, don't bring in EXTRA because that is the Moon Cell.

[lantzblades]

TMNT, Star wars and star trek are all series with things considered "canon" by the fans that are not the original version of the characters or aren't canon by the creator.

the changes in circumstances are important Lyco. Talking over each other gets us nowhere. I can follow the logic you're using, my point however is that given the option of a limitless horizon and a white washed room I pick the former.

Canon is, from a creative standpoint stifling, might as well write a computer program or hire monkeys for all the enjoyment I would get from fact checking and gutting my interpretation of the characters to be as canon correct as possible.