Cross Effects: Rebirth (2.0) Discussion Page (OOC).

[Alice]

I'll get to Kuro's thing later, for now I'm a bit preoccupied with other things.

Hey, Knick, Mille was at the end of the bed. How did she get over there? She also had already gotten a blanket for herself at the end of the night.

[Kurogami]

To be clear, most of what I am doing is putting in things I had planned to reveal later Now because hiding or failing to mention things is bad and does not work I have learned, adding information and descriptions that have been discussed as I need to and have basically been asked to, as well as applying hard limits (and Nerf Foam) to some (read:A LOT) of his powers including the ones I had yet to reveal.

[Brahmastra]

as well as applying hard limits (and Nerf Foam) to some (read:A LOT) of his powers including the ones I had yet to reveal.

his powers including the ones I had yet to reveal.

You realize this is metagaming, right? It's precisely one of the things that got lantz the boot. Deliberately hiding powers on his sheet is metagaming, and 100% against the rules. There's a clear difference between changing a sheet because of a character trait (IE Quinn can turn into a Rogue Dhampire under certain circumstances, but it is a permanent change to his sheet, cannot be undone, and loses him other things on it) and deliberately hiding powers. The latter is metagaming.


Also the whole thing with adding powers he doesnt have (which is REALLY Suspension-of-Disbelief breaking) is stupid. Again, difference between adding abilities from multiple stories he's in (examples: Karna, Gilgamesh, Fate Averruncus) and just adding shit because you want him to have it (I swear to god that space-time bender dorm is literally lantz-tier awfulness)

[Alice]

Also, changing things from direct canon can be okay, but it has to make sense with canon.

Take what I did with Revya for instance. This Revya's from the Gig ending, where it's actually Gig's body they have to share, but somehow the fusion caused his body to get a hair color change and a gender bend (his voice doesn't change one bit. Also, he complains about his hair, but not the lack or addition of certain body parts. This has to be deliberate, because there's differences between the versions of the ending based on gender, but that particular reaction is exactly the same. ...it's pretty great). I claim completing one of the tests they had to perform to undo it set it back so that it was Revya's body, to make the sheet easier to make and to make the power levels more reasonable (because Gig is OP as all hell. I could have done similar and claimed he got some kind of nerf due to the fusion, but eh. ...damn, why didn't I think of that then? ><). So yeah.

And yeah, hiding powers is a real bad idea. You need real good reason to do so, and even then, you need to make damn sure Elf and Nachos are okay with it/know about it, and to get those things on the sheet before the post you first use them. With Tom in 1.0, I I made sure to have his powers on there the moment before he switched forms. And even then, knowing what I know now, I would have just spoiler tagged them, making sure they were on the sheet at the very beginning. And even then I made sure all his current abilities were on the sheet with full descriptions, which had some overlap with his true form's. And I also made sure Elf knew who he was beforehand.

The problem is that lantz did a lot of revealing powers that weren't on his sheets for many of his characters constantly. It was frustrating, and compounded with a lot of the other stuff he did and just how unlikeable his characters were, became a huge problem. You're not as bad as he is, not by a long shot. But after everything lantz disrupted and got away with, we have to be stricter this time in order to insure that something like that does not happen again. I'm sure that if I made a similar mistake, I would get reamed for it too. ...or at least I'd better, I ask constantly if my stuff's fine for a reason guys.

So yeah. I would talk to Nachos, since he's the one in charge of this type of stuff, or both him and Elf. Have your sheet worked over. It'll benefit you in the long run, trust me.

[The Man With All The Cute Boats]

Nachos verdict:

Put ALL that fucking shit on your sheet, and seriously you shouldn't have hidden powers in the first fucking place. A sheet is supposed to inform people of what your characters can do, and at NO FUCKING POINT AT ALL is it okay to omit information on it.

You can update your sheet as your character's status changes (like, say, learning how to do something along the way, or becoming a vampire), but at no point should you hide abilities for later, that's just plain not fucking cool.

Other people were asked to specify what their magic could do because it was vague, though vague still means it was there, so they lost nothing. You outright hid shit because you felt like you could, so srsly:

You have a warning for metagaming due to purposefully leaving things out of your sheet. Another case of this and you're out.

You're also not allowed to post until you've updated your sheet, in full detail. There is NOTHING you "have yet to reveal", it's all there, and you're not playing until it is.

[Cherry Lover]

as well as applying hard limits (and Nerf Foam) to some (read:A LOT) of his powers including the ones I had yet to reveal.

his powers including the ones I had yet to reveal.

You realize this is metagaming, right? It's precisely one of the things that got lantz the boot. Deliberately hiding powers on his sheet is metagaming, and 100% against the rules. There's a clear difference between changing a sheet because of a character trait (IE Quinn can turn into a Rogue Dhampire under certain circumstances, but it is a permanent change to his sheet, cannot be undone, and loses him other things on it) and deliberately hiding powers. The latter is metagaming.

Hiding powers is definitely not a good thing, no, but he's already said he intends to fix that. No, he shouldn't have done it in the first place, but the sensible solution to that is for him to simply fix the sheet, not to try to force him to nerf his character because he made a mistake in thinking it was OK to leave things off the sheet.

Also, hiding powers is not in itself meta-gaming. It only becomes meta-gaming when you start actually using those powers. As long as he's not tried to use powers he hasn't told us about beforehand, I don't think you can call meta-gaming on it.

[The Man With All The Cute Boats]

The fact he willingly did it in the first place is what's wrong. This is an RP with other people, and a whole lot of people had very full, complete sheets before his was posted. He had no reason AT ALL to believe it was okay to hide stuff, he just suddenly decided it so.

OP characters are fine, we have Gil and Karna, but you can see Enuma Elish on Gil's sheet, it's not hidden away for later.

[Brahmastra]

As long as he's not tried to use powers he hasn't told us about beforehand, I don't think you can call meta-gaming on it.

He had the clear intent of hiding away enough powers that they are classified as "A LOT", which is arguably worse when Minato already has a complete skillset (as in, the best personas and equipment he can have) and then the bullshit Kuro added because he thought he could. Yes, this is something I'll call metagaming on, but I'll let Nachomen handle this.

[The Man With All The Cute Boats]

Also, hiding powers is not in itself meta-gaming. It only becomes meta-gaming when you start actually using those powers. As long as he's not tried to use powers he hasn't told us about beforehand, I don't think you can call meta-gaming on it.

It's metagaming because he willingly gave in an incomplete sheet and had powers stowed away for "later", powers that were undefined and could damn well be whatever he could want them to be.

If it's not on the sheet and he pulls it out of nowhere in the middle of RPing, even if he does say "yeah my character's about to do this" beforehand, there is literally no reason to believe it's not a huge asspull.

Why?

BECAUSE IT'S NOT ON THE FUCKING SHEET.

Adding to that, the sheets have to be APPROVED before being allowed into play. Throwing in unapproved abilities and shit out of seemingly nowhere in the middle of the RP completely betrays that.

[Knick]

Alice, sorry about that, it was a reading comprehension fail. My post was edited.

[Alice]

Thank you. And it happens to everyone, don't worry about it. I'll wait for Chris to post with Fiore before I have Mille do anything.

[Lycodrake]

I suppose Mooncake is busy? Either way, I think it far more appropriate to let Gilgamesh respond first.
Well, appropriate and hopefully entertaining.

[Arch-Magos Winter]

Back. Well, I've been back since noon but was dealing with other things.

[Elf]

Sorry guys, I won't be on line at all tomorrow.  Twelve hour trek to the in-laws after an early shift at work.  I will be back on Friday.

I posted and everything.

[Puck-Chan]

Sorry guys, I won't be on line at all tomorrow.  Twelve hour trek to the in-laws after an early shift at work.  I will be back on Friday.

I posted and everything.

It's okay, Erufu! Just have fun there!