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[Arch-Magos Winter]

Lantz, I gotta ask, how did Sakura somehow summon a van?

Also, anyone hear from OPOI of late?

Projected it which... doesn't make any sense. How the fuck can she perform structural analysis to the point of being able to project so many different polymers, hydrocarbons, metal alloys, acidic solutions, and other compounds? Why is she still alive after doing something that for all intents and purposes should have killed her?  Why is every character lantz makes so fucking perfect at whatever they do?

Nope.

[Alice]

I gotta call foul on the van's projection as well. Even Archer can't do that, so "Sakura," who should be for all intents and purposes weaker than him, shouldn't be able to do that either. If you gotta PM people the explanation, fine, but I think we need this one explained.

And I'll try to post soon, I'm sorry. The bug I talked about getting earlier turned into a bit of stomach flu, and while it wasn't awful or anything and I think I've almost shaken it off at this point, it's kinda sapped the energy out of me if nothing else. I'll let you guys (the ones I'm holding up that is) formulate some form of creative punishment for me if I keep this up. ^_^"

[Elf]

I mean, summoning it from another dimension I could buy, because it's already been said that she's got the Jeweled Sword.

However, projecting a working van from scratch . . .

[lantzblades]

Normally with the way projection works it would be pointless. Sakura however is employed as a mechanic as a night job. The van isn't one projection but rather every individual part. She's not in combat so she's not going to pass out from the strain just yet but basically what she just is a dozen projections rather than a single one and mana wise she just went from 100% to 40%.

[Alice]

I think it would still be the same net prana cost even if she can project each individual part, because Shirou or Archer would have to do the same to get the same effect because they obviously would have to have all the parts there as well. Structural analysis should account for all the parts to begin with, so what Sakura's doing shouldn't make a difference. And even then, it should be reducing her prana far more than that. Properly, she should be close to dead, if not already dead regardless.

Again, even Archer can't do this. Even with the explanation you gave us, it still doesn't quite seem plausible.

[lantzblades]

It's a mundane object, I frankly think that the whole protest fucks up canon royally since Shirou's projection is different from the normal kind to begin with and frankly the lecture Rin gives about projection leads me to believe  that magi have done actual research into projection as a subject and a van, again a mundane non magical object was well within their grasp.

[Alice]

Like I said though, even Archer shouldn't be able to do this.

Plus even as Archer's daughter, I don't think he'd necessarily pass down his ability to project, especially to that degree, for certain, as a lot of that is determined I think by his personal circumstances. She'd be likely to reinforce really well, sure, but projection on that scale? For most magi, it shouldn't be plausible, and even as Archer's child, Sakura should fall under the "most magi" category, because, again, it's highly unlikely he'd pass down his projection, as that is all largely unique to him and not genetic.

The problem is that, even as a mundane object, it's large, has lots of small parts, plus fluids to get in there in order to get it to run properly. That would take a ton of prana. To be able to project a car would be getting closer to miracle territory, which, again, even Archer, who can repair kitchens and entire rooms back to brand new using his magic, shouldn't be even able to do.

[lantzblades]

Archer is not special, his ability to project is not the standard, we do not have a standard to compare it to only Rin's testimony in the VN. Sakura is by no means average as magi go and it's a mundane object.

Sakura can't do what Archer does but frankly she doesn't need to to project a fucking van.

[Alice]

But you just tried to justify it by saying that Shirou's projection is special and thus doesn't fall under normal standards. Guess who Archer is? Archer is a far stronger Shirou. If a stronger Shirou can hardly pull it off, neither should his daughter.

And I just said why a mundane object would still give trouble.

Quite frankly, if even Elf is questioning this openly, doesn't that indicate that there's some form of problem here?

[Daiki]

For the sake of the argument, let's assume Sakura has the prana and talent for completing the projection.(I doubt it's even possible, but whatever)

What's strange for Sakura, is to be able to maintain a perfect image of its composition. Remember that projections have a time limit, and it is greatly influenced by the magus' own mental structure plan of said item. The more complex it becomes, the shorter it will last. And mundane or not, has nothing to do with it. Separate parts and a working vehicle aren't on the same scale either.

Not gonna argue it for hours but, you could have made it simple by just projecting a set of (tandem)bicycles. Or hijacking a vehicle.

[OPOI]

Sorry guys, I'm in a place where access to the Internet is really limited. Didn't have time to tell you guys earlier.

[Alice]

It's more than fine- you can't help that.

And Daiki presents a really good argument (better than mine anyway ). Like I said, straight up projecting the van I think even Archer would struggle with, assuming he could do it at all, for the reasons Daiki stated.

[lantzblades]

1) a tandem bike cannot balance or support a fucking wheel chair

2) I read the VN three times I know full well there's a time limit

3) stealing a car would be out of character  so no.

4) the idea that laser swords, holes in space time are perfectly fine well and possible but a goddamn car is impossible when literally the only point Rin ever made was that project is limited by the users imagination and they mana is utterly stupid

5) I was not using Shirou to justify anything the way you claim.

being complained at for every little thing is getting old. Seriously Canon doesn't say no so quit complaining.

[Cherry Lover]

For the sake of the argument, let's assume Sakura has the prana and talent for completing the projection.(I doubt it's even possible, but whatever)

What's strange for Sakura, is to be able to maintain a perfect image of its composition. Remember that projections have a time limit, and it is greatly influenced by the magus' own mental structure plan of said item. The more complex it becomes, the shorter it will last. And mundane or not, has nothing to do with it. Separate parts and a working vehicle aren't on the same scale either.

Not gonna argue it for hours but, you could have made it simple by just projecting a set of (tandem)bicycles. Or hijacking a vehicle.

To be fair, Lantz is right that projecting a mundane object, even a very complex one, is likely considerably easier than projecting something like a Noble Phantasm. It still does seem somewhat questionable, but I don't think canon is really all that clear on what normal projection can do.

Also, Shirou is shown to be capable of fixing electronic equipment using projection, and that's before he even knows of his abilities. So, whilst I'm not convinced it would be possible personally, I also don't think canon explicitly rules it out. We never see a magus even attempt to project mundane objects in that manner, and Rin never says doing so is impossible.

[Alice]

You have no right to tell people to stop complaining lantz, not when you keep giving us good reason to complain. Maybe consider that we actually have a point instead of just assuming you must be always right and everyone that disagrees with you is always wrong. There's a reason people find that irritating, lantz. 

And @Cherry yes, it's easier than a Noble Phantasm, but it'd still be a bitch to do regardless. Plus the time limit means that it should have collapsed by now, and quite frankly, Sakura should barely be conscious right now. This is honestly all illustrating why we have a point when we point out lantz's characters being Sue-ish, this many people shouldn't be calling foul on stuff like this.