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[Arch-Magos Winter]

Mike, this isn't a rage banning.

Lantz has pulled shit here on this forum multiple times that should have gotten him banned. His general attitude to Alice and I, along with his attempts to brow beat people into following along with him and doing everything his way has gotten out of hand and at this point, he needs to be punished for it. He's been warned twice over this attitude, and at the very least a Temporary Ban is in order so he realizes hopefully that there are consequences to his actions.

You need to stop coddling him Mike. Lantz doesn't need to be treated like a child and protected, he's a grown fucking man who needs to realize what's acceptable on a forum and what is not.

[lantzblades]

Nice lies arch

[Arch-Magos Winter]

*Facepalm*

OK, first off, the attempts to kick me from threads you had no right to attempt to kick me from. Second, your general refusal to actually change your behavior despite being told about it repeatedly. Third, within the RP, repeatedly showing absolute contempt for other players and complaining about having plans in an RP ruined by other characters when you shouldn't be planning shit in this RP to begin with. Fourth, your general attitude to both Alice and I, and your general refusal within this whole thread to compromise with other players about frankly anything.

[Cherry Lover]

Mike, this isn't a rage banning.

Lantz has pulled shit here on this forum multiple times that should have gotten him banned. His general attitude to Alice and I, along with his attempts to brow beat people into following along with him and doing everything his way has gotten out of hand and at this point, he needs to be punished for it. He's been warned twice over this attitude, and at the very least a Temporary Ban is in order so he realizes hopefully that there are consequences to his actions.

You need to stop coddling him Mike. Lantz doesn't need to be treated like a child and protected, he's a grown fucking man who needs to realize what's acceptable on a forum and what is not.

If Lantz deserves a ban here then I deserved a ban on BL many times over. Since I don't agree with that I therefore do not think he deserves a ban either.

Also, we have a specific process for giving out bans, involving all of the admins. If Alice invokes that and it passes then I have a much harder decision to make, but I will have no qualms undoing any ban I do not consider absolutely necessary that is not done with the consent of the admin team as a whole. And especially any ban done by someone who is clearly not thinking rationally or impartially at the time.

No-one (or, at least, very few people) can be impartial when it comes to arguments they are involved in or what they see as personal attacks. I know that from bitter personal experience. Therefore, I will not ever allow someone to hand out a unilateral ban in response to something said to them that I do not agree is urgently necessary.

OK, first off, the attempts to kick me from threads you had no right to attempt to kick me from.

He has the right to ask, and Alice is doing much the same here despite it being Elf's RP. You might consider speaking freely worthy of a ban (unless it is you doing it, apparently...), but I sure as hell don't.

Second, your general refusal to actually change your behavior despite being told about it repeatedly.

That is entirely his decision and, if necessary, Elf's. Not being willing to fall in line with the opinions of the majority is not a bannable offence.

Third, within the RP, repeatedly showing absolute contempt for other players and complaining about having plans in an RP ruined by other characters when you shouldn't be planning shit in this RP to begin with.

Which is an RP matter not a forum matter. If Elf considers him to be acting unreasonably she can kick him from the RP, but bad RPing is not a bannable offence.

Fourth, your general attitude to both Alice and I, and your general refusal within this whole thread to compromise with other players about frankly anything.

Your attitude to him has been no better than his to you (considerably worse, in fact), and I don't see you getting a ban. Further, he has been willing to compromise, you just seem to consider "compromising" to mean "capitulating".

[Arch-Magos Winter]

If Lantz deserves a ban here then I deserved a ban on BL many times over. Since I don't agree with that I therefore do not think he deserves a ban either.

Also, we have a specific process for giving out bans, involving all of the admins. If Alice invokes that and it passes then I have a much harder decision to make, but I will have no qualms undoing any ban I do not consider absolutely necessary that is not done with the consent of the admin team as a whole. And especially any ban done by someone who is clearly not thinking rationally or impartially at the time.

No-one (or, at least, very few people) can be impartial when it comes to arguments they are involved in or what they see as personal attacks. I know that from bitter personal experience. Therefore, I will not ever allow someone to hand out a unilateral ban in response to something said to them that I do not agree is urgently necessary.

See my last post. Those actions are frankly, all things worthy of at the very least a temporary ban. Lantz has over the course of 6 months basically forced Alice into this from his general attitude. He's a caustic presence on the site that is the source of practically every argument in this thread, and despite warnings and multiple people telling him to not do certain things, he does them again. And again. And again.

Lantz quite frankly should be banned because to do otherwise at this point is condoning the behavior he's expressing.

[lantzblades]

GM controls the game Arch, if that's what you are referring to. My behavior is coloured by your attitude, I'm not the one constantly getting in peoples faces despite what you claim. The first thing you did after registered was flame me, the very first post. I don't have contempt for players Arch nor do I show any, that is, again, fabricated by your attitude. I did not start the game as if it were a combat game, I have contempt for your persistent attempts to slaughter my characters wholesale.

you and Alice do nothing but insult me, call me names and scream at me. What response do you expect exactly?

[Cherry Lover]

See my last post. Those actions are frankly, all things worthy of at the very least a temporary ban. Lantz has over the course of 6 months basically forced Alice into this from his general attitude. He's a caustic presence on the site that is the source of practically every argument in this thread, and despite warnings and multiple people telling him to not do certain things, he does them again. And again. And again.

Lantz quite frankly should be banned because to do otherwise at this point is condoning the behavior he's expressing.

Magos, no, those actions are absolutely not worthy of a ban. The attitude is more arguable, but if Lantz's attitude is worthy of a ban then you should have been banned about 10 times over by now for the amount of flaming and insults you have thrown at him.

[Bloble]

Oh look, more stupidity. From pretty much everyone except Names and YOLF.

This is ridiculous.

[Cherry Lover]

Yeah, OK, we should cut this out.

Arch, you are entitled to your opinion on what is and is not worthy of a ban. It is never likely to co-incide with mine and nothing you say will change that because I have a different fundamental philosophy to you (for one thing, I don't buy the whole "not punishing something means condoning it" argument, and am opposed to things like drugs laws and anti-lolicon laws despite not particularly condoning those things). This is just a stupid argument that is going to set things off again.

[Arch-Magos Winter]

GM controls the game Arch, if that's what you are referring to. My behavior is coloured by your attitude, I'm not the one constantly getting in peoples faces despite what you claim. The first thing you did after registered was flame me, the very first post. I don't have contempt for players Arch nor do I show any, that is, again, fabricated by your attitude. I did not start the game as if it were a combat game, I have contempt for your persistent attempts to slaughter my characters wholesale.

you and Alice do nothing but insult me, call me names and scream at me. What response do you expect exactly?

Really, what provokes those confrontations is your own attitude and actions and if you can't understand that frankly you're beyond help.

Mike, I want to point you out to the Dungeon Crawl thread - Lantz for no reason, explicitly said in the OP that I can't join. When I posted in the thread about the fact that his changes don't make mechanical sense and clarifying stuff for someone who's curious, he told me to get out of the thread and started whining on and on about this fact, even when Daiki posted about this, he then attacked him despite Daiki's post being completely free of insults and the like, and it's only fault in lantz's eyes being it supported me. Quite frankly this sort of attitude has been repeated several times by Lantz, even when like here, I'm not actually doing anything that could actively harm his RP.

All my character's attempts to kill his were justified in character through Lantz's own actions and things on his sheet. I gave him options, things to do, and the chance to react, but each time he did act he (and you I might add) threw a bitch fit about it simply because he wasn't getting his way.

[Cherry Lover]

Magos, drop it.

[lantzblades]

GM controls the game Arch, it's universal. In cross effects elf is the gm, in your wod it's you and in dungeon crawl it's me.

don't like it too bad. And I don't remember snapping at daiki.

and PKers can justify anything Arch

[Cherry Lover]

And you Lantz. This argument has gone on way too long.

[lantzblades]

Fair enough

[YOLF]

*sigh*

I dislike where this argument is going. Again.

First off, Alice, no one wants you to leave, and if you recognize it'll just make you miserable either way, then don't choose to do that please. The lack of your presence would hurt the RP, and it would hurt the story. Think of how the enjoyable parts you've contributed to it already. I would grieve to see you leave the RP.

Second. I don't honesty think the majority of lantz's offenses are ban-worthy. He's stubborn, doesn't conform, is hard to listen to advice and compromise with others for the sake of the general flow of the story, doesn't seem to put that much effort in writing overall which shows in the general low (IMHO) quality of his RP posts, and his character sheets could use a lot more work because a lot of the time it feels like he's pulling completely unexplained stuff out of nowhere.

That said, these are all things that matter in the scope of the RP, because even if he's been at least somewhat disrespectful by ignoring the advices of those who do care for general improvement and don't just dislike him for other reasons or have issues with him, he hasn't been caustic and disruptive enough to warrant a forum ban.

Now, a ban from the RP? That I don't necessarily disagree with, unless he does yield on the matter and starts to pay more attention and care to those details that clearly bother people.

These are my thoughts on the matter. I have a feeling I forgot to address some things, and I would write a longer post, but honestly my patience for these arguments is wearing quite thin.


EDIT: Oh look people have calmed down. Finally. Thanks Mike.

... I'm still posting this because I wrote all of that already and I think I mentioned pertinent points.