Questions thread

[Cherry Lover]

Well, it's not so much that technology can't hurt them (Kiritsugu demonstrates otherwise) as it is that they are powerful enough to have countermeasures to it, or are sufficently durable that nothing short of a nuke will kill them.

For example, Zouken is literally just a swarm of worms, and Nero is a collection of beasts. If you shoot them it has no real effect. If you blow them up with a tank shell it would probably not kill them. It's not that they're immune to technology so much as it is that technology is designed to kill squishy normal humans and not self-reinforcing magi with energy shields....

[Cursed by Creation]

Ah, I see.  Moving onto my next question, which is the background points:

1) Magecraft gets progressively weaker with every generation as Humanity gets further and further away from it's origin.

2) Humans will inevitable render all forms of magic obselete.

Does this mean that eventually magic and magecraft will cease to exist and that individual Humans can face Gaia and Alaya on equal terms ala Notes?

[Cherry Lover]

Hmm, yes, I think it is implied that magecraft will eventually cease to exist. Indeed, the major point of divergence between Fate/Extra and the rest of the Nasuverse is that it happened in the 1980s or so.

I'm not sure, though, that magecraft disappearing would allow normal humans to face Gaia or Alaya on equal terms. Indeed, since Alaya is literally just the will of humanity as an entity I don't think it is conceptually possible for any one individual human to face it on equal terms. Whatever power that human possesses is by definition also possessed by Alaya itself.

[GabrieliosP]

To add on Cherry Lover's answer: it's not that magic by itself died, just prana (the Atlas Institute still exist in the Extraverse because alchemy doesn't need prana, while the Mage's Association is pretty much in shambles). Also, prana started dying around the seventies, but disappeared for real in 1999.

[Cursed by Creation]

That seems to be a contradiction though; in the world of Notes, the World (both Gaia and Alaya) is dead, but Humanity continues to exist.  AFAIK, if Humanity dies, then Alaya ceases to exist, but if Alaya dies, Humanity can continue to exist.

[Cherry Lover]

Gaia is dead in Notes, I don't recall anything saying that Alaya is. Alaya isn't "the world", Alaya is the spirit of humanity.

[Cursed by Creation]

Ah, I see.  But would that mean Alaya is out of control (seeing as there is nothing left to oppose it) in Notes?

[Cherry Lover]

Alaya is just humanity. It can't do anything aside from act through humans to protect humans. And, yes, given that, in Notes, humans are capable of defeating the Ultimate Ones of other planets, I would say it is probably "out of control".

It is possible, though, that Alaya is gone in Notes since there aren't any "real" humans left.

[Cursed by Creation]

The Ether Liners are just modified Humans though.  Perhaps the Alaya at the time of FSN and other works set in that general time period is dead and gone, but if Alaya is Humanity, then Alaya probably changed/evolved along with it.  I guess that, along with the fact that Gaia is dead and the Ultimate Ones are out for Humanity (or post-Humanity), allowed the rise of the ridiculously powerful people like Ado Edem.

[Cherry Lover]

I don't think Gaia actually holds humans back in that sense, and Alaya certainly wouldn't.

I'm not particularly well-informed on Notes itself, though, so I don't know about Ado Edem and the like.

[Cursed by Creation]

I don't think Gaia actually holds humans back in that sense...

It would actually...the Ether Liners 'eat away' at the planet to power their Knight Arms.

[Cherry Lover]

Ah, OK, fair enough.

[Cursed by Creation]

Well here's an interesting question that just came to mind: if Kiritsugu at the height of his power faced off against Dark Sakura, could he live up to his reputation as the 'Magus Killer'?

[lantzblades]

Trumped up title, also which Kiritsugu are we discuss pre or post fourth war?

[Cursed by Creation]

Pre-Fourth War.