Dark Side of the Moon

Type Moon => General Discussion => Topic started by: GabrieliosP on May 18, 2013, 01:32:19 AM

Title: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: GabrieliosP on May 18, 2013, 01:32:19 AM
Since we already have a thread for CCC, might as well make one for vanilla EXTRA, since people who might want to discuss the original and the CCC thread will contain spoilers for vanilla EXTRA no matter what we do.

I'm currently on my first playthrough with Saber and male protagonist (yay for emulation! The fact that it plays at a perfectly normal speed at my crappy PC is also a bonus) and I'm loving the game, though I'd wish that leveling-up would be easier (the amount of EXP needed is way too high). I'm also not a big fan of the rock-paper-scissors RPG but I can handle this.

So far I'm about to face Julius and his Servant (took Rin route), and out of all Masters, I loved Alice the most. Lil' Ronnie was just plain weird (then again, bulimic cannibal...). And despite getting the weekly healing item, I still visit Sakura in the infirmary every day ^_^
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: lantzblades on May 18, 2013, 01:39:29 AM
The exp isn't really, especially with saber. The reason why it's a bit high is because of the suggested level mechanism in the game. If you are above the suggested level, assuming you concentrate on the servants primary stat you'll destroy bosses without trying. Heck I'm readying a digital copy save for when CCC Gets released. I've done everything in the game
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: GabrieliosP on May 18, 2013, 01:48:59 AM
Yeah, I'm currently with Saber at A strength (focusing more on STR, but also on DEF) and she can destroy pretty much any mooks with three hits (and the third is only needed to take care of a little amount of HP left).

And some patterns are too easy. Lil' Ronnie's Lancer spends his entire second turn guarding so I just need to spam break and... bam! Eight hits!
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: lantzblades on May 18, 2013, 01:51:54 AM
Strength  till A+ then defense till same Ronnie  often uses seal break  so it's not absolutely free 8 hits
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: GabrieliosP on May 18, 2013, 01:55:36 AM
Yeah, she used Seal Break in the pre-elimination battle battle, but in the real battle she used Add Poison, so I got eight hits twice (she did use Seal Break once but since her Lancer was already at red health, I just spammed skills and killed it around the fifth action).
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: lantzblades on May 18, 2013, 02:17:05 AM
You got. Lucky, what difficulty are you on?
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: GabrieliosP on May 18, 2013, 02:23:04 AM
Playing on normal.
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: lantzblades on May 18, 2013, 02:24:34 AM
Seems like she uses seal break more on easy then
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 18, 2013, 02:40:59 AM
Well, that or you just got really unlucky. It seems odd that she'd use a more useful skill more often on the difficult level....
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: lantzblades on May 18, 2013, 03:17:55 AM
Extra is bizarre that way. Oh, gab, is it your first play through if so over level after the fight with leo
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: lantzblades on June 01, 2013, 09:57:52 PM
I have noticed a few things on my play through of extra recently

1) Sakura seems to only have a frown or worried look sprite, that could be a decision made because she is an npc but I find it odd given  her obvious nature as something more

2) the private room design is built for archer, the items from taiga for saber yet neither character is given a tangible presence in the story (in fact in archer's case it outright tells you that emiya doesn't exist) caster on the other hand is the only one who exists in the story without the player.

3) Sakura only tilts her head up to address the player, this could be skimpy sprite work  or a subtle nod to her looking up to the player

4)  Gawain is almost completely made up in terms of his attitude and issues, nasu was taking a piss here

5) Rin, is seen in a desert area in the real world, as such this leads me to believe then that the haraway group doesn't control north America in extra as the three major deserts are either within the boundaries of the us or resource rich

that is it for the moment
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: Cherry Lover on June 02, 2013, 02:55:20 AM
I have noticed a few things on my play through of extra recently

1) Sakura seems to only have a frown or worried look sprite, that could be a decision made because she is an npc but I find it odd given  her obvious nature as something more

Well, presumably she's always worried because of the situation everyone is in....

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2) the private room design is built for archer, the items from taiga for saber yet neither character is given a tangible presence in the story (in fact in archer's case it outright tells you that emiya doesn't exist) caster on the other hand is the only one who exists in the story without the player.

Well, Archer makes sense because he was obviously added due to his presense in FSN. As for Saber, I dunno, maybe she was there to look like FSN Saber, even though she is an original character.

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3) Sakura only tilts her head up to address the player, this could be skimpy sprite work  or a subtle nod to her looking up to the player

Eh, what do you mean here?

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4)  Gawain is almost completely made up in terms of his attitude and issues, nasu was taking a piss here

That's hardly surprising, he doesn't care much if he completely messes with mythology, and Arthurian mythology is hardly clear in general anyway.

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5) Rin, is seen in a desert area in the real world, as such this leads me to believe then that the haraway group doesn't control north America in extra as the three major deserts are either within the boundaries of the us or resource rich

What?
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: lantzblades on June 03, 2013, 06:39:52 PM
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Well, Archer makes sense because he was obviously added due to his presense in FSN. As for Saber, I dunno, maybe she was there to look like FSN Saber, even though she is an original character.

not what I mean, I meant that without the play choosing them they have no impact on the story where as caster was twice's servant canonically.

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Eh, what do you mean here?

what part is confusing exactly.

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What?

the haraway's seek to control resources as a way to make their government ideal work, Rin would upload from a presumably safe location, with that in mind that desert must not be under haraway control. thus we conclude that america and canada are not under haraway control
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: Cherry Lover on June 03, 2013, 06:52:13 PM
not what I mean, I meant that without the play choosing them they have no impact on the story where as caster was twice's servant canonically.

Yeah, I know that's what you meant, I was just trying to explain the discrepancy.

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what part is confusing exactly.

Well, I'm not sure what context the "only" is in.

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the haraway's seek to control resources as a way to make their government ideal work, Rin would upload from a presumably safe location, with that in mind that desert must not be under haraway control. thus we conclude that america and canada are not under haraway control

I understand that, I just don't get how the idea that the only desert in the world that the Harways wouldn't control is in the US folllows from that.
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: lantzblades on June 03, 2013, 07:08:32 PM
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I understand that, I just don't get how the idea that the only desert in the world that the Harways wouldn't control is in the US folllows from that.

they are looking for resources, of the worlds deserts the ones in the US are largely worthless for that purpose, hence why the haraways would not control them, fairly simple.
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: Cherry Lover on June 03, 2013, 07:16:21 PM
The US doesn't have any large deserts, though....
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: lantzblades on June 03, 2013, 07:30:26 PM
doesn't have to be large, the point still stands
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: Cherry Lover on June 03, 2013, 08:11:40 PM
doesn't have to be large, the point still stands

I very much doubt the US is the only part of the world with deserts that lack significant resources. And, for that matter, I don't think the US does lack resources, it just tends not to mine them because it's cheaper to employ miners in Africa or China.
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: Alice on June 04, 2013, 04:41:50 AM
Well, I think we do have some decently sized deserts, more to the Southwest and towards California. But I don't think the US would be the last safe haven really, considering how entrenched we are with stuff involving commerce. Really, I think the desert area would likely be more in the Middle East, though that's just my guess. ^_^"

More on the game itself, what was everyone's first route, or what route do you plan on playing when you actually do play?
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: Cherry Lover on June 04, 2013, 04:59:47 PM
Well, I think we do have some decently sized deserts, more to the Southwest and towards California. But I don't think the US would be the last safe haven really, considering how entrenched we are with stuff involving commerce. Really, I think the desert area would likely be more in the Middle East, though that's just my guess. ^_^"

Yeah, I wouldn't see the US as the last safe-haven either. It's too powerful a country. If they're after resources, though, then the Middle East is unlikely. One thing Lantz is overlooking, though, is the idea that Rin might be in an area that the Harways do nominally control, but they have no way to locate her. Or, at least, she might have temporarily gone to such a place for the purpose of doing what she needed to do.

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More on the game itself, what was everyone's first route, or what route do you plan on playing when you actually do play?

Hmm, probably Caster. She sounds interesting, and Archer I know already....
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: GabrieliosP on June 06, 2013, 01:15:35 AM
Finished my first playthough with Saber! ;D

Now, to Archer!
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: lantzblades on June 06, 2013, 05:03:48 PM
Archer was my first play though and honestly my favorite

and I never said America would be the last safe haven. It is just a country with deserts so it fits a possible location for Rin to transmit from. And I didn't overlook anything I dismissed the idea because extra rin should be smart enough to know that is a suicidal plan
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: Cherry Lover on June 06, 2013, 05:28:28 PM
Well, a lot of countries have deserts, most of them bigger than those in the US. Still, I guess we can't say for sure.
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: Elf on June 07, 2013, 04:09:47 AM
Well, the US does have Death Valley, which is yeah.

However, from the tone of Extra, I'm pretty sure it was in the Middle East.  Hell, for all we know the Harways could be controlling the States.
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: Cherry Lover on June 07, 2013, 01:21:36 PM
Well, the US does have Death Valley, which is yeah.

Well, yeah, although I don't think that is anything like the same scale as the Sahara....

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However, from the tone of Extra, I'm pretty sure it was in the Middle East.  Hell, for all we know the Harways could be controlling the States.

Yeah, honestly I would say the Harways would be controlling the US. It's simply too powerful a country for them to leave it alone.
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: lantzblades on June 07, 2013, 06:09:03 PM
i seriously doubt they control the states, logically they would incorporate Canada first and well. we have been under a king, we will not go back, and we will not allow our allies to be targeted either. Canadians are nice but we aren't pushovers, we would poison the water and burn the forests before we would let the haraways have control of our nation. and given the resource crunch I doubt the haraways would take the risk against us thus leaving lesser targets like the US free.
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: Cherry Lover on June 07, 2013, 06:27:43 PM
i seriously doubt they control the states, logically they would incorporate Canada first and well.

I can't see how they can really be in control of the world without the US.

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we have been under a king, we will not go back

Erm, you're still under a King. Well, a Queen, anyway....

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and we will not allow our allies to be targeted either.

Given that their faction is the "Western European Conglomerate", I think they are your allies....

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Canadians are nice but we aren't pushovers, we would poison the water and burn the forests before we would let the haraways have control of our nation. and given the resource crunch I doubt the haraways would take the risk against us thus leaving lesser targets like the US free.

Or, they could just bypass Canada and take the US....

Also, I don't see how Canada is any less opposed to being ruled in that way than most other Western countries. None of them would take too well to it as things stand, but they can also very easily be tricked into it.
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: Elf on June 08, 2013, 02:52:40 AM
However taking the US is a very bad idea.  If someone tried to take over the country they would be met with excessive deadly force.  There's a reason why our military is one of the most feared in the world.

Now they could be allies to the Harways, like they're allies to England.
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: Cherry Lover on June 08, 2013, 12:42:49 PM
However taking the US is a very bad idea.  If someone tried to take over the country they would be met with excessive deadly force.  There's a reason why our military is one of the most feared in the world.

Now they could be allies to the Harways, like they're allies to England.

Well, that assumes they did so by force. I don't think it's at all implausible that they could take over the US by negotiation or subterfuge. The Harways seem like the sort of people the US right would support, at least initially.

I mean, I would assume the Harways didn't conquer Europe by fighting, because our military isn't exactly non-existent, and the US would help if necessary. So, if they can do that to us they can do that to the US.
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: lantzblades on June 09, 2013, 07:06:22 PM
I think nasu limp wristed the whole issue, i don't think he considered the historical perspective in the "real world"
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: Cherry Lover on June 09, 2013, 09:25:14 PM
I think nasu limp wristed the whole issue, i don't think he considered the historical perspective in the "real world"

I don't think he really considered how it would come about, no.
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: lantzblades on June 12, 2013, 03:55:24 AM
Exactly as such I take it as America and Canada are free
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: Alice on June 12, 2013, 11:13:28 AM
Time for me to chime in a little, probably. ^^" On the topic I brought up earlier, my first playthrough was Archer. :) And now to the more serious stuff.

Well, the US does have Death Valley, which is yeah.
However, from the tone of Extra, I'm pretty sure it was in the Middle East.  Hell, for all we know the Harways could be controlling the States.

There's also Archer's ending in CCC. In that he's wearing Middle Eastern garb when the MC wakes up.
Since I can't Moon Rune I can't confirm it for sure, but I think that Reincarnated!Archer here is about in the same area where Rin's resistance group is. That type of garb is pretty typical of the Middle East, so besides tonal stuff, there's also that.

However taking the US is a very bad idea.  If someone tried to take over the country they would be met with excessive deadly force.  There's a reason why our military is one of the most feared in the world.

Now they could be allies to the Harways, like they're allies to England.

Yeah, exactly. Really, the way the Harways would take over the US would likely be through using their corporate assets to line the politician's pockets, thus essentially buying the government over time. Taking our military would be suicidal, but corrupting our politicians into a corporate run nation of sorts is sadly not quite as difficult.
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: Cherry Lover on June 12, 2013, 01:46:52 PM
Exactly as such I take it as America and Canada are free

I, however, consider that highly unlikely, because I see no reason to believe Canada would fight the Harways any more than any other country would, and your argument seems to rely mainly on blind patriotism, so....

Well, the US does have Death Valley, which is yeah.
However, from the tone of Extra, I'm pretty sure it was in the Middle East.  Hell, for all we know the Harways could be controlling the States.

There's also Archer's ending in CCC. In that he's wearing Middle Eastern garb when the MC wakes up.
Since I can't Moon Rune I can't confirm it for sure, but I think that Reincarnated!Archer here is about in the same area where Rin's resistance group is. That type of garb is pretty typical of the Middle East, so besides tonal stuff, there's also that.

Ah, OK, so it is likely the Middle East, then?

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However taking the US is a very bad idea.  If someone tried to take over the country they would be met with excessive deadly force.  There's a reason why our military is one of the most feared in the world.

Now they could be allies to the Harways, like they're allies to England.

Yeah, exactly. Really, the way the Harways would take over the US would likely be through using their corporate assets to line the politician's pockets, thus essentially buying the government over time.

Yeah, that's exactly what I'd expect. They wouldn't conquer the US, they'd take it over using soft power.

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Taking our military would be suicidal, but corrupting our politicians into a corporate run nation of sorts is sadly not quite as difficult.

I would say it's not only "not quite as difficult" but that it has already happened, frankly. The US is a "corporate-run nation", the corporations are just doing a good job of keeping this well-hidden from the majority of Americans.
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: lantzblades on June 14, 2013, 09:38:48 PM
It's based on historical events. Canada has taken a lot of crap, we aren't about to fold outright
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: Cherry Lover on June 14, 2013, 09:43:56 PM
It's based on historical events. Canada has taken a lot of crap, we aren't about to fold outright

Like I said, though, it's not even a matter of "folding". I very much doubt they would be conquering the US or Canada by force (or anywhere else, for that matter). But, to be in control of the world as a whole they do need to control North America. Otherwise they're only ever going to be a regional power at most.
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: lantzblades on June 17, 2013, 05:13:44 PM
i honestly think that is what they are during extra, if they really controlled the world they wouldn't need the grail.
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: Cherry Lover on June 17, 2013, 05:48:28 PM
i honestly think that is what they are during extra, if they really controlled the world they wouldn't need the grail.

That is true, but the impression I get is that they are at least the most powerful entity, which wouldn't be true if they didn't control the US.
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: Alice on July 06, 2013, 07:33:45 AM
i honestly think that is what they are during extra, if they really controlled the world they wouldn't need the grail.
They need it to ensure absolute rule. There'll always be pockets of resistance (such as Rin and her friends), so the idea is to ensure and gain absolute control. Make an absolute empire, in other words. That's kinda what I understood, anyway, though that's probably not a perfect explaination. 
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: Cherry Lover on July 06, 2013, 10:06:23 PM
Yeah, that seems about right.

From what I can tell of Extra it's pretty clear they have control over most of the world with only a small amount of resistance, and that simply wouldn't be true if the US was not under their control.
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: GabrieliosP on July 20, 2013, 02:53:58 PM
I'm beating a dead horse here, but in EXTRA, Rin explicitly mentions that she is in Middle East because that's a region that's not under the control of the Harways.
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: Cherry Lover on July 20, 2013, 03:07:53 PM
I'm beating a dead horse here, but in EXTRA, Rin explicitly mentions that she is in Middle East because that's a region that's not under the control of the Harways.

Well, yeah, that's kind-of conclusive proof....
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: lantzblades on July 23, 2013, 09:26:51 PM
That just proves that the writer is very very ignorant of world politics
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: Cherry Lover on July 23, 2013, 11:10:13 PM
That just proves that the writer is very very ignorant of world politics

Again, I really think it is ridiculous of you to assert that Canada is somehow special and incapable of ending up ruled by the Harways....
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: lantzblades on July 23, 2013, 11:25:26 PM
In a resource war the haraways not controlling an area like the middle eastis just ignorance on the writers part or otherwise a mass of stupidity on the haraways part, it's vastly dumb
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: Cherry Lover on July 23, 2013, 11:36:19 PM
Given that their "thing" is technological stagnation, I'm not sure they need oil so much. Particularly since continuting to burn oil at the rate we're doing until 2030 and beyond will basically destroy the planet....
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: lantzblades on July 23, 2013, 11:50:45 PM
Oil is for more than gas and resource management is about having the resource to manage
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: Cherry Lover on July 23, 2013, 11:53:55 PM
Oil is for more than gas

Yes, but most oil is used for fuel of some kind (either petrol or for power plants), and we need to stop burning it or the environment is screwed.

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resource management is about having the resource to manage

Of course, but that doesn't mean wasting effort conquering areas you don't need to conquer. Particularly if those areas aren't particularly supportative.

The Harway's philosophy seems to be based somewhat in Western countries. It figures that the Middle East wouldn't be inclined to join. And, declaring war on them is a big step, particularly if the people aren't willing to just give in.
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: Alice on July 24, 2013, 12:06:54 AM
Plus it wouldn't shock me if the Harway's would push for a change in what fuel was used not only for practical reasons, but also for PR purposes. Just because they're trying to take over everything doesn't mean that they don't have any sense in terms of that type of stuff or wouldn't want to take advantage of an opportunity to make themselves look good.
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: lantzblades on July 24, 2013, 12:24:43 AM
It's just dumb looking at it from strategy perspective, there's so many reasons why it makes no sense I have to conclude that the haraways are inept and are just blustering that they control a large amount of land and resources
Title: Re: Fate/EXTRA - The original game
Post by: Kat on February 22, 2014, 10:20:51 AM
Doing extra hard Tamamo run.

Rani route
No healing supplies except those I find and earn
HP healing through Code casting, but only MP refilling supplies which I find
No grinding.