Messages

16

Role Playing / Re: Mecha Heroes - Sign-Up and Concept Discussion Thread

« on: August 16, 2013, 11:00:58 PM »

Also I'd like to add Mike, that simply accepting mechas have unreasonably light mass won't solve too many problems.
Namely that their performance is still just flat ridiculous.
So there's no point denying the weight such construct would realistically have.

It's like trying to fix a single letter in an essay full of grammatical errors.


But I guess there's also a confusion regarding what we see as "truth" here.

You appear to take in the "official" statement on the mecha's weight as absolute.
I look at the mecha, take the various details into account and then approximate how much such machine would weight.
Because visual representation and such are a much more integral part of a fiction. Like I said, I take in what I actually see.

Anyways, I think this discussion went on for long.
We should be getting back to topic.

17

Cross Effects 1.0 Archive / Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page

« on: August 16, 2013, 10:39:37 PM »

It was a quick idea so I didn't think things that far.
But yeah, that would fit.

Albeit I just want to see Kotomine with cigar and pinstriped suit.

18

Role Playing / Re: Mecha Heroes - Sign-Up and Concept Discussion Thread

« on: August 16, 2013, 10:34:12 PM »

You may want to read this thread again.
Because you just went back to the starting point of the debate.

19

Cross Effects 1.0 Archive / Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page

« on: August 16, 2013, 10:26:07 PM »

You want a clear antagonist?

How about the following mix:
Kotomine Kirei+Angra Mainyu+ Mafia

Make him some sort of alternate reality version who became a crime boss or something.
You'd be amazed how much that role is fit for Kotomine.

20

Role Playing / Re: Mecha Heroes - Sign-Up and Concept Discussion Thread

« on: August 16, 2013, 10:20:49 PM »

Nah, such lightweight materials would draw in even more issues which you appear to be ignoring here.
And then there's the fact that the stated components of mechs are generally just ordinary elements like steel titanium or some type of carbon derivate. Those would weight what you can expect of them.
Plus the firepower of even the most conventional-looking weapons in mech fictions tend to be massively exaggreviated.
Simple missiles and Bazooka shots in UC Gundam occasionally put the MOAB to shame, despite being magnitudes smaller in size.
Or a mecha suddenly putting to stop when previously it was flying faster than 10km/s.
So idea of ridiculous amount of thrust is right in their valley.
When you actually look into it in detail, fiction commits outright homicide on the rule of physics.
Like I said just go with the ride and accept what you see.

21

Role Playing / Re: Mecha Heroes - Sign-Up and Concept Discussion Thread

« on: August 16, 2013, 09:17:02 PM »

With sufficient thrust even a solid block of steel can fly.
There's nothing too magical about it aside from how you get the power.
And seriously fiction an breaking the rules of physics come hand in hand.
I would rather accept that instead of believing in a blatant lie with evidence proving the opposite.

22

Role Playing / Re: Mecha Heroes - Sign-Up and Concept Discussion Thread

« on: August 16, 2013, 09:05:59 PM »

Well, I always go via the "accept what I see" assumption.
I see mecha that appears to be several hundred tons heavy, unaerodynamic, wingless yet capable of flight.
Then of course that means that despite the above handicaps the mecha is capable of flight.
It does help that many mechs are capable of pulling impossible stunts in the air that would reasonably require triple digit G accelerations if not above.
So they probably accomplish this via brute force.
With sufficient thrust things like mass and air drag become less relevant.

And there are tons of other engineering issues that comes with the great mass and humanoid shape. Mechas just plainly ignore these in general.

23

Role Playing / Re: Mecha Heroes - Sign-Up and Concept Discussion Thread

« on: August 16, 2013, 08:27:28 PM »

Even 195 tons seems way too light to me. A 10m by 10m by 10m cube of water would weigh about 1000 tons, and I doubt that an armoured mech would be less dense than water, since most metals are much more dense (hence why they sink) and there is little point in having a mech that is mostly empty space. Also, if it were lighter than that, then it would be able to float....

Actually, even if the mecha would be solid metal, its volume would never approach 1000 m^3.
The volume of the human body is around 0.07m^3.
Gundams and such are circa 10 times taller than a human.
If you use square-cube law then you have to multiply this by 1000.
So that'd be around 70 cubic meters.
A common type of steel has the density of around 7880 kg/m^3.
So if we build a 18 meter tall statue molded of solid steel, it's still "just" 551.6 metric tons.
Potentially larger since mechas tend to be blockier. And then it also has weapons to use.
And well, realistically they should also use materials more dense than steel. Especially for armor.
Still, not many mecha at that scale would realistically weight 1000 tons.
300-700 metric tons is a more accurate guess. Depending on a few things.
Of course if things a little different if the mecha exceeds 20 meters in height.
And there are larger ones still.

Also it worths noting that fighter planes are nearly as large as your average Mobile Suit. Yet they only weight 15-35 tons.
I fairly certain that most authors take these as basis for the ridiculously low mass ratings.
Which would be half-justified if the mecha's design indeed shows more similarities with that of a fighter. (Which they generally aren't)
The Union Flag from Gundam 00 is a good example for a "fighterized" mech.
Still, the various mechanisms that make the mecha move its joints adds up a considerable weight. So you'd be lucky to slim it down to 80-100 metric tons.

Really applying physics to a giant robot which by all senses should collapse under its own weight in real life?
Anyhow, I used Mazinger's weight as a reference, but OK, I can up the weight.

I see.
Yeah, I knew that mass figure seemed familiar.
Based on the mecha's cross-section we occasionally see in the series, even if the entire body of Mazinger Z is made of aluminium (Super Alloy Z is actually a derivate of aluminium), it'd be still around 200 metric tons or above.
Not 20.

And yeah, I realize this is a bit pedantic to ask.
But try to bear with it.
This will be the only time when I nitpick on such minor technicalities.

24

General Discussion / Re: Questions thread

« on: August 16, 2013, 04:37:44 PM »

Yeah, standard magic resistance only works on magics that directly try to effect Saber or whoever other Servant has it.
For example it didn't neutralize the spell that was animating the Dragon Tooth Warriors and Caster abused this by having Saber caught by them physically.

And if we're at magic-neutralizing effects, curiously enough Diermuid's Gae Dearg doesn't seem to effect the body of Servants.
Despite the fact its explicit effect is to cut off the circulation of prana until the spear is in contact.
Perhaps it could be a safety measure because Diarmuid is a Servant too.
Also Gae Dearg seems to be limited to only "constantly on" type of magics.
So he cannot just thurst his spear forward and neutralize Saber's Excalibur.

Medea's magic is way ahead of modern magecraft. A normal magus couldn't do "A-rank spells" at anything like the rate she can. And, Saber can block pretty much anything Medea throws at her, even so.

I think you have a misunderstanding here.
I didn't say that Medea's magecraft aren't above the capability of modern mages.

But what she does in FSN isn't impossible by magus standards. It would just require far more effort from them.
For example to cast an A rank spell modern magi generally require a huge ritual. Caster can spam these A-rank spells with ease.
If I have to use a comparison it's like we have a dude who can barely bench press 200lbs.
And then another who can do 100 reps with the same weight.
That would be more or less the relation between modern magi and Medea.
And yeah, if we have a dude who can do 100 reps with 200lbs, you can bet he can bench press even more weight than that.
And precisely that's what happened in Hollow Ataraxia. Caster channeled a really powerful attack. And the narration asserted that not even Saber would be able to block that.
I was referring to this.

25

Role Playing / Re: Mecha Heroes - Sign-Up and Concept Discussion Thread

« on: August 16, 2013, 01:38:45 PM »

Actually there's nothing really wrong with your submission.
If I have to compare to the previous game, yours would be slightly above the average. Which is pretty good for the first try.

My only nitpick is with the mecha's weight.
As somebody who studied engineering I know the mass parameters most mecha series give us are complete BS.
19.5 tons would be barely enough for the mecha's head, not to mention the rest of its body.
Even if your mech is powered by some sorts of pseudo-magical means, the titanium armor alone would weight more than a hundred tons.
I suggest adding another decimal to the weight stat, so it would be 195 tons.
It would be still ridiculously light but at least it makes some sense.

26

Role Playing / Re: Mecha Heroes - Sign-Up and Concept Discussion Thread

« on: August 16, 2013, 06:58:09 AM »

True.

Also, out of curiosity, do things like Striker Packs count as upgrades? KAIZA and I were talking about it, and we didn't know, unfortunately.

If it's an integral part of how your mecha fights, it isn't.
Just like I can't ban other mechs from transforming, I won't prevent you from switching between various packs for combat.
But I will consider this when reviewing your mecha.
If overall it's too powerful, I might suggest you to tone it down a bit.
I doubt that would happen, though.

On the other hand if these "Strike Packs" are introduced only in later mission then it definitely counts as an "upgrade". Just like how a mecha suddenly unlocking a secret weapon does. I call these "hidden upgrades".
Albeit depending on circumstances I might deduce imaginary points for the "upgrade cost" of this.
As for how upgrading stuff works I'll detail later.

As for the setting, I would think that we could go with the Zentradie from the first Macross franchise as the enemies from outside our solar system, though that could mean someone would need to play as Hikaru Ichijyo (aka Rick Hunter in the dub called Robotech).

For the government, why not go with the Earth Federation and Neo Zeon, who are currently fighting each other for the third war in a row? It would make some sense to have Gundams involved at that point.

Anyway, just my two cents, nothing really concrete.

This is an entirely original RP, so even if we're fighting against the Zentraedi we don't need to feature canon characters.
Hell, you don't even need to use Valkyries!

Similar to the Gundam-like setting.
Even if the enemy are similar to the Zeon and Earth Federation, we don't need to make them exactly that.

Besides, both of these settings would spell extremely bad news for Earth.
In Macross the Zentraedi killed off pretty much anyone save for the crew of Macross.
In Gundam, in the first week of the One Year War the nukes and colony drops killed half of the population and spelled all other sorts of doom.

Oh well, not like the previous game's setting was any brighter, here it goes:

Post-Crisis Calendar Year 20:

It's been more than a decade since Humanity's first contact with extraterrestrial life. Contrary to the expectations though, the aliens weren't peaceful. They were invaders called EM with the intention to conquer the entire world. Facing this new threat, all nations of Humanity made a hasty alliance and formed what would be later known as the Earth Sphere Union. But even the combined forces of the Earth were insufficient against the EM's superior technology. The aliens were using giant robots with nearly impenetrable armor and firepower previously unheard of. Despite Humanity's best effort they've lost more than 50% of their military power in only a few years.

That was until the appearance of the mysterious Professor M, a genius scientist and weapons designer. Believing that one can only fight poison with poison he developed a new kind of weapon, Mobile Suits. Imitating the style of the enemy these were giant humanoid machines allowing humans to fight the EM on almost even terms. Mobile Suits changed the war and helped Humanity to drive the EM out from the surface. The loses of the aliens were increasing.

But the EM's persistence knew no limits. With supplies that were seemed to be inexhaustible the EM continued the assault, slowly developing new and better means to threaten human lives. The Earth's orbit became a constant battlefield with the ESU forces engaged in a hopeless war of attrition. Paradoxically enough, those who lived on the surface experienced a false sense of peace, almost believing that the horrible EM wars were long over. With the immediate threat of human extinction seemingly gone, words criticizing the ESU's actions began to surface. Struck by internal strife and the external threat of the EM, the Earth Sphere Union was on the verge of collapse. The catastrophe was drawing near. Only a miracle could save humanity from destruction. A miracle accomplished by great people.

Humanity needed heroes!

I want to something at least marginally lighter now.
If I have to use a comparison, the previous game was like War of the Worlds.
And I want the new one to be closer to Mars Attacks.
And again, I'd prefer to have a setting made not exclusively by me.

But yeah, a Gundamesque setting can also work.

27

Role Playing / Re: Mecha Heroes - Sign-Up and Concept Discussion Thread

« on: August 16, 2013, 05:25:01 AM »

Another thing we'd need to discuss is the setting. That's why this is called "Sign-up and Concept Discussion Thread".

The classic SRW set-up is that there's a world-wide government which is under attack by some alien threat.
Shall we go with this?

Another thing to consider is the average tech level. But I suppose we can judge that more accurately once the RP profiles are ready.
There are many other details we can go over.
Basically I don't wish to hold monopoly in this story. So I give you a chance to formulate it from the beginning.
Otherwise I can come up with the setting and basic plot quickly and sadly that's what I had to do in the previous such game.

28

Fanfiction / Re: Fanfic ideas thread

« on: August 15, 2013, 08:59:48 PM »

Well, I guess it wouldn't be a bad idea to resurrect this.
And since I'm at the topic, I would ask:

What do you think about a fanfic where Sakura and Rin exchange places?

So Sakura would inherit the Tohsaka magic and live alone.
While Rin would be under the Matou house's "care".

How would their personalities change?
What would be the difference compared to the original events of FSN?

29

Secret Garden / Re: Type Moon Personality Quizzes

« on: August 15, 2013, 08:55:59 PM »

Tohsaka Rin
Archer
Archer
Tohno Shiki

Those were my results.

30

Fanfiction / Fate/Twists - Retold

« on: August 15, 2013, 08:33:38 PM »

Once upon a time I wrote a little Nasuverse fic called Fate/Twists.
It actually wasn't just one story but a collection of one-shots.
It was a bunch of "What if?" scenarios.
All of them had the potential to be turned into a fully fledged fic.
I was also eager to take requests but then the whole thing didn't kick off and I stopped it after the fourth installment.
Anyways, you can find them here:
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5202907/1/Fate-Twists

I think the overall idea was great and I managed to make the plot interesting enough.
The only issue was with the language itself.
You see I wrote this fic in 2009.
Back then my understanding of English was terrible. I pretty much only knew what I was taught about it in high school. And that's far from enough.
So nearly every one of my sentences were awkward IMO. Especially by my current standards.
I tried to solve it in 2011 but that was just a poor and lazy attempt at patchwork and grammar corrections.
Even then the edit feature of FF.net is a crackshot that can just eat up words and do other mess.
So in the end I think it made more harm than good.

Back to topic, I basically plan to rewrite this fic and then perhaps continue it.
I'm already working on chapter 1 and the difference is just astounding.

BTW, Chapter 1 is called "Tohsaka Sakura".
Yes, it details an alternate scenario where Sakura became the Tohsaka hier while Rin was adopted by the Matou household.
This chapter is basically an alternate version of the FSN prologue, now told from the perspective of Tohsaka Sakura.
It was actually one of the longest chapters I ever wrote for fanfiction.
I progress a bit slow because "rewriting" this chapter pretty much equal writing a whole new piece of fiction. Just with the same or similar plot.
Still, I predict it'll be out by today or tomorrow.