Eh, I thought they had some sort of option to switch between the H and non-H version. Also, what does "non-H" mean? There's a bunch of non-H stuff that has been terribly censored in the RN version of HF, and I don't want that aside from to laugh at the stupidity of it.
That's what he did. Jack's version has an h/non h toggle, and his non-h version is a mix between F/SN vanilla and RN. The H version, if I'm reading that right, is pretty much F/SN as you remember it. Koto's is the pure RN version. That make it clearer for you?
>Granting Sakura more dignity
>Shitty censorship
Are you really Sakura's fan or derive enjoyment from her suffering and you are complaining about her suffering given more dignity?
I thought you said you were doing a thing with the H scenes removed but with the rest of the RN censorship removed. Some people might want to remove the H scenes, that doesn't mean they want Sakura's character totally mangled by shitty censorship....We need a switch, pronto!
Using the description "H-free version" for the full RN thing is misleading, and will con people into reading the shitty censored version that totally fucks up Sakura's backstory and characterisation, and they have no way of even knowing that there is a better version there.
In what sense does it give her "more dignity". It's still fucking obvious she is being raped, Zero outright states as much.
I thought you said you were doing a thing with the H scenes removed but with the rest of the RN censorship removed. Some people might want to remove the H scenes, that doesn't mean they want Sakura's character totally mangled by shitty censorship....Love you too, Mike!
Using the description "H-free version" for the full RN thing is misleading, and will con people into reading the shitty censored version that totally fucks up Sakura's backstory and characterisation, and they have no way of even knowing that there is a better version there.
QuoteIn what sense does it give her "more dignity". It's still fucking obvious she is being raped, Zero outright states as much.
Realta Nua is more canon than Zero.
Mike, again, there's a switch on Jack's patch. The explanation's in the video. If you wanted him to expand on it in his OP, you could have just asked him nicely to do so.
I thought you said you were doing a thing with the H scenes removed but with the rest of the RN censorship removed. Some people might want to remove the H scenes, that doesn't mean they want Sakura's character totally mangled by shitty censorship....Love you too, Mike!
Using the description "H-free version" for the full RN thing is misleading, and will con people into reading the shitty censored version that totally fucks up Sakura's backstory and characterisation, and they have no way of even knowing that there is a better version there.
Nice to see this went over so well from the start :/
Mike, worms are not genuine rape, you know.
QuoteIn what sense does it give her "more dignity". It's still fucking obvious she is being raped, Zero outright states as much.
Realta Nua is more canon than Zero.
No, it's not. Plus, RN doesn't say "Sakura was not raped", it merely carefully avoids saying she was.
If there is no mention of Shinji rape in RN, there is no Shinji rape in RN. Otherwise, it's assuming things.
QuoteIn what sense does it give her "more dignity". It's still fucking obvious she is being raped, Zero outright states as much.
Realta Nua is more canon than Zero.
No, it's not. Plus, RN doesn't say "Sakura was not raped", it merely carefully avoids saying she was.
That's what RN does too. I've loled out some bad censorship, but the way they treat Sakura's abuse, save for Shinji, is the same way Zero does. Compared to their violence censorship or their lazy coverups to H scene references it's actually not nearly as bad.
If there is no mention of Shinji rape in RN, there is no Shinji rape in RN. Otherwise, it's assuming things.
Mike, if you'd actually played it you'd know that Shinji threatening to "tell Shirou" doesn't even happen in the RN version (either in that scene or the earlier ones). You're criticizing something you haven't actually looked at (I remember you making this same criticism of this scene before either of us even had access to RN).
Personally I think the RN version of HF is a lot less awkward/tasteless so I'd recommend the non-H version! but what do I know, people have different tastes
Mike, if you'd actually played it you'd know that Shinji threatening to "tell Shirou" doesn't even happen in the RN version (either in that scene or the earlier ones). You're criticizing something you haven't actually looked at (I remember you making this same criticism of this scene before either of us even had access to RN).
Personally I think the RN version of HF is a lot less awkward/tasteless so I'd recommend the non-H version! but what do I know, people have different tastes
Also looking at both versions, I'd disagree with Mike's assessment of Sakura's motivations in that scene. She wasn't thinking "well I have to kill my brother or Senpai will kill him and get sad". What happened was she gave up resisting and started thinking about how nobody would let her have her happiness and how she cursed the world for "hating her so much", and she finally just thinks "fuck it, I wish he wasn't here". THEN the shadow kicks in. This is the same in both versions.
So really she had no concrete motive in either version, it was just her going "this sucks, FML" and her shadow taking over from there. You can't even really call it intentional.
Mike, if you'd actually played it you'd know that Shinji threatening to "tell Shirou" doesn't even happen in the RN version (either in that scene or the earlier ones). You're criticizing something you haven't actually looked at (I remember you making this same criticism of this scene before either of us even had access to RN).
Personally I think the RN version of HF is a lot less awkward/tasteless so I'd recommend the non-H version! but what do I know, people have different tastes
This is why I decided I should provide access to both versions in my patch. Personally I'm not too big a fan of how either one is handled but I think the original is legions better than the RN version, but like you said, different tastes. I recommend that people read both versions and decide for themselves.
In the original, she thinks "I wish he wasn't here" because she knows he'll tell Shirou, and Shirou will end up breaking even more as a result. It's much more Shirou-centric.See, I don't think that's the reason though. "Oh no, Senpai!" was the reason she was actively struggling at first, but the trigger for the shadow was rather the darker "nobody ever lets me be happy, I hate the whole world" thought train that came after she gave up.
In the original, she thinks "I wish he wasn't here" because she knows he'll tell Shirou, and Shirou will end up breaking even more as a result. It's much more Shirou-centric.See, I don't think that's the reason though. "Oh no, Senpai!" was the reason she was actively struggling at first, but the trigger for the shadow was rather the darker "nobody ever lets me be happy, I hate the whole world" thought train that came after she gave up.
Really, is Sakura having the motivation Koto stated so bad? Honestly, for all the crap she's been through it's a rather understandable and human emotion to have. Certainly after you've been through enough shit it's rather easy to feel that way. And then regret any bad things that result from it later. Whether it be just being real grouchy to people as a result, or in this case...
Plus it's not like Shirou wasn't a motive period. It's possible to have multiple motivations after all. I'm just saying that it's a perfectly human reaction to have under her circumstances. No one's perfect, after all.
Well it's kind of a difficult place to be in because of how RN has been treated. The ideal way for it to work would have been for FSN to have been TL'ed, RN TL'ed, and then someone to have come in and made some kind of fusion patch, but the order was mixed around. MM first added the voices to FSN, then Waku Waku added some but not all of the new effects and scenes from RN, so RN turned into something you patched into FSN because of this. The project started out with Waku Waku putting the MM text into RN, as a more efficient version of the RN patch he did for the 2004 FSN, as it's easier to put FSN into RN than it is to put RN into FSN, so in order to avoid alienating the audiences I wanted to keep the experience of "FSN with RN features" but also provide something else that was just full on RN, but since we had access to the text changes I decided I would apply some, such as the removal of some uses of "x says this in a y tone" since RN is voiced, and the removal of some more infamous moments like some of Shirou's rather sexist comments that have given him a rather negative reputation in the community, but was very conservative towards the FSN version of the text.
To answer your question, other references to Sakura being raped were made into if statments as well, in fact I might just change that because I think I went overboard. I blame UBW for this. In Fate I only added if statments to things like references to the H scenes and whatnot, and left lines like "Kill them or rape them" from Illya to Berserker alone. but then in UBW, there was so little sexual content I kinda became sort of super observant and used them on things I may have overlooked in Fate and HF, such as Shirou feeling Rin's breasts when they were hiding in the corner, or the line about Shinji imagining himself raping Saber. It also doesn't help that the scene where Caster tortures Saber was considered an H scene so I used if statements on those too. So by the time I got to HF, UBW had put me into the mindset of, "if it's sexual, then use an if statement." I think I may have gone overboard as I probably don't need to accomodate the different versions of Sakura's other abuses........no wait......shit I do because of the Lust Worms vs Crest Worms, which is important to the H/H alts.......damn. See, it's tough to find where to draw the line. Though I think some stuff like Kotomine saying she has suffered sexual abuse and Sakura herself saying she was raped while they were in the rain could be left in, so I'll go ahead and change that when I fix the other stuff.
Clarifying the suggestion I made: Basically the uncensoring switch and the H switch are independant of one another so if we use the unensoring switch to keep the original version of the Shinji/Sakura relationship, you can keep H scenes off, leave uncensoring on, which normally would do nothing without H scenes on but in this case would be the new flag check for the Shinji Sakura content.
Well, I think the rape scene does still work without the sex scene, because the important point is more that Shirou loves and has accepted Sakura than that they have had sex. Admittedly it's a while since I've read it, though. But, having the H content and not the other uncensored content (such as rape mentions) definitely would be weird.
Well, I think the rape scene does still work without the sex scene, because the important point is more that Shirou loves and has accepted Sakura than that they have had sex. Admittedly it's a while since I've read it, though. But, having the H content and not the other uncensored content (such as rape mentions) definitely would be weird.
Right, so at the moment we're kinda stuck with relying on the H patch unfortunately. I'll make a note in the readme though.
Also one of the two major tech problems has been solved so I'll start looking at some of the stuff I used if statements on to see if I can just make some of them independent of the H patch.