Dark Side of the Moon
Type Moon => Fanfiction => Lantz's fics => Topic started by: lantzblades on October 31, 2013, 07:28:29 PM
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The previous thread became something of a nonsense pit completely off topic. As such I find that making another thread is prudent, plus it's efficient for anybody reading stories etcetera after the fact.
here's the way this will work. I'm going to create place holder posts with an indexed story name, Questions and answers will be put there as I receive them. With that in mind please don't post until I am finished with the place holder posts.
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Of Swords and Sorcery
Satoshi's own story. People are often critical of Satoshi and his world but it's obviously an alternate universe. And frankly Nasu swung the golden key in front of my face and using all I knew about the nasuverse at the time and a previous story script I created his world, abilities etcetera. While Nasu may have updated his information thus rendering some things incorrect I feel that the story is still one worth telling.
first off it's a story in part intended to use the principal of the multiverse, so even before getting into Satoshi's world exactly there's going to be inconsistencies. Yes I use Fanon because Nasu doesn't explain everything so I have to explain things and when say an author such as the one who wrote swords dancers comes up with a decent explanation then I'll use it because a good point is still good even if the main author didn't say it.
I hate spoilers, all my life people screw me in this regard and I firmly believe that a story should be read not spoiled because people are impatient.
the format is like adventure time. In so far as the details get revealed on the go, keep reading and it will make sense. If not I can understand disliking the format but I won't change it.
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Of Flesh and Fantasy
A lot of people are critical of Satoshi in general but especially of this concept. In order to enlighten everyone of the truth I'll detail an explanation here.
Of Flesh and Fantasy was conceived after I skipped over a lemon scene in Shinji's route (as at that time I did not write lemons) and people thought I should learn to in order to make the routes more typical. I set out to learn (which is why I use all sorts of combinations of characters in one shots, to practice lemon writing) eventually I decided to make the story as a big fan service thing where I didn't have to be overly serious and could give readers any canon pairing they suggested. Contrary to popular belief Satoshi was not the main character of the story, in fact the story was without a title.
Shirou was the first main character considered but he, along with the eight other characters failed the longevity test and eventually I decided to use Satoshi and while I gave the readers fan service in the form of stuff like ArcherXAkiha ShikiXSakura etcetera I could have a chuckle at my own writing.
the main point of this project fan service still stands and readers can request ideas for me to write but I want to be clear that Satoshi being able to bed anyone was not the original idea of making him the protagonist but rather was influenced by requests to give voters the freedom to choose from as many options as possible including incest and such.
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One shots
these are moments in time. So I may or may not continue them and the concepts may or may not be very bizarre.
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Lemons
I will write anything but loli, yaoi and Gilgamesh as a rule. I'm not fond of incest although I can write it. No ntr, guro mind break (unless the point is rescuing the broken characters) no fat men.
Satoshi commonly appears here randomly to pad out these stories because I am fond of three act structure (in this case in example using Shirou X rider and Archer X Luvia and having no closing point I insert a third scene) of otherwise characters I want to write don't. Fit (ie vampire Satsuki, Waruied and so on) because they would kill their partner from blood loss etcetera.
all things being equal I do have preferred pairings.
ArcherXRin
ShikiXKohaku
ExtraMCXextra Caster
and of course Gilgamesh X Gutter/ditch
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Crossovers
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Miscellaneous stuff
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Ok, feel free to ask questions bit please be polite
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I suppose this would count into your oneshots and lemons, specifically your older, reposted ones, and also a bit in miscellaneous.
Would you be alright with it if I merged your completed stories/oneshots into one thread? Lantz Reposting Megapack thread? As it is, twelve of the nineteen topics on the front page are both yours and most are not new content, and reposting is burying everything down and might be rather overwhelming to newcomers, who could feel daunted by the huge amount of works by a single author.
It's also burying the threads dedicated to current and ongoing works, such as your own Of Swords And Sorcery. The present is being overloaded with the past, and is becoming less accessible in turn.
Of course, I'd index, link and label everything myself with meticulous care, as this is my idea. The first post will be an index, with links to every other story post in the thread with the story's title, and possibly a small description if you feel it necessary I put one. It would be one post per story, and not more stories per post so that every individual link brings to an individual story. If there are multiple posts to one story, they would be labeled part one, part two and so on, unless the chapters have specific names, following each other so that each story sticks with itself. The thread would then be organized and easy to navigate, and I will update the index every time you repost an old story into the thread.
This would, of course, only be for old stories and reposts. Would you post a brand new oneshot, it would not go into the thread. Same with a brand new story, as once it gets completed it will not go into the thread.
Of course unless I receive an actual complaint, you are completely free to disagree and veto the entire thing. But I'm just asking you consider the idea, as it might make this part of the forum less cluttered and would put your older content in a single place, where we can easily find it if we so decide to go looking.
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Those aren't the kinds of questions I was intended to be asked. However you present a great idea and I have no objections to what you propose. As long as I can get you to adjust the index in case I decide to write a sequel for any of my works I say go ahead and do as you suggest.
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Well, actually, it might be possible for Names to post it as you, which would probably allow you to edit it. Certainly I have a box that allows me to post as other users, I'm not sure if moderators have the same power.
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Links are a mess with my current posting method, names honestly would have an easier time doing it rather than I.
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What the heck does the Scourge of the Counter-Guardians mean as a title? Did Satoshi somehow kill counterguardians?
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Yes and no. You can't kill CG after all. You can however delay, disperse or defeat singular entities. In short he is simply a major pain to them.
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Links are a mess with my current posting method, names honestly would have an easier time doing it rather than I.
Well, mods and admins can edit your posts anyway, so it wouldn't prevent him. But, yeah, I guess that makes sense. It just feels a bit odd to have your fanfiction thread not made by you, I guess....
If you need anything added and Names isn't around, you can also ask me to do it.
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Yes and no. You can't kill CG after all. You can however delay, disperse or defeat singular entities. In short he is simply a major pain to them.
So basically.... Satoshi is a walking apocalypse, and threat to humanity.
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Those aren't the kinds of questions I was intended to be asked. However you present a great idea and I have no objections to what you propose. As long as I can get you to adjust the index in case I decide to write a sequel for any of my works I say go ahead and do as you suggest.
Fantastic.
Now I'd like to hop to it right away, but I have work tomorrow and it's past time I get some rest. I'll definitely get it done in the next few days, but you could help me with something:
You could list which works are reposts so I know what to move around or, the simpler option and probably the shorter list, you just could list for me the ongoing works(unless I'm mistaken, this is only of swords and sorcery and of flesh and fantasy, though I could be wrong) and newly posted works, and I'll make all the rest of them fit nicely into the new thread.
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Yes names those two are the only ones currently on going.
@arch He is counter to the method used by the counter guardians. As you know they are sweepers who slaughter everyone. Satoshi does not tolerate such a stance and so he interferes with their attempts to murder innocent people. He isn't a threat to humanity or a walking apocalypse.
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Yes names those two are the only ones currently on going.
@arch He is counter to the method used by the counter guardians. As you know they are sweepers who slaughter everyone. Satoshi does not tolerate such a stance and so he interferes with their attempts to murder innocent people. He isn't a threat to humanity or a walking apocalypse.
Here's the thing - by the time the CG's are called in the situation has reached the point where wholesale slaughter is the best option because otherwise humanity is fucked. By interfering with the CG's he's basically painting himself to Alaya as a threat to humanity.
Also, killing a True Ancestor with his bare hands? How the...
EDIT: For that matter, delaying a CG is basically impossible. They have a near infinite mana supply; they'll just eventually wear him down and kill him, and if one goes or is disrupted, then Alaya will send in the cavalry to eliminate that threat.
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He's for all intents and purposes immortal so wearing him down is basically impossible for a singular entity as he regenerates as fast as they do. The Entity Alaya considers him a fundamental problem but for reasons I can not yet reveal cannot kill him.
as for arc the narration says battled, that doesn't mean kill or even win the fight.
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He's for all intents and purposes immortal so wearing him down is basically impossible for a singular entity as he regenerates as fast as they do. The Entity Alaya considers him a fundamental problem but for reasons I can not yet reveal cannot kill him.
as for arc the narration says battled, that doesn't mean kill or even win the fight.
Wat? Then it just sends more entities to do the job. It's the old Imperial Guard Soviet strategy - throw more bodies at the problem than it can handle.
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Unfortunately the cgs are robots, it's a fatal flaw which renders them useless when stacked rather than avalanched.
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Unfortunately the cgs are robots, it's a fatal flaw which renders them useless when stacked rather than avalanched.
...OK, I think I figured out what you're trying to say -
The thing is the effort would be futile, because either way, Alaya sends another CG to either A) Finish the job while the first distracts Satoshi or B) Just fucking Zerg Rushes him with a bunch of CG's until he dies due to sheer weight of numbers. No matter how good a swordsman you are, automatons that leave no openings and are relentlessly attacking you will eventually get through enough times fast enough that Satoshi dies. Lantz. There's no getting around this. If he can survive that, he's so Sueish that it isn't even funny to mock him anymore.
Have you ever seen the Terminator? Or read fiction about hivemind armies? Units working in perfect tandem with each other are fucking scary opponents because they work together perfectly without error or hesitation. They're willing to sacrifice themselves for a fleeting advantage to allow another to land the fatal blow. It's why they AREN'T useless. It's why Human Wave tactics work, quantity eventually makes quality irrelevant if you can't stop the tide.
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The zerg rush only works if immediate. An avalanche works but they never summon a hundred immediately and in the intervening time Satoshi can remove the thing causing the cg response. Hypothetically you're idea works but I never wrote them confronting him that way except twice. He ducked the first and lost the second.
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The zerg rush only works if immediate. An avalanche works but they never summon a hundred immediately and in the intervening time Satoshi can remove the thing causing the cg response. Hypothetically you're idea works but I never wrote them confronting him that way except twice. He ducked the first and lost the second.
They'd then just adapt and come in force immediately every time he shows up. Alaya isn't stupid. And AHAHA no, it works even if it's not immediate. The stream eventually breaks down the rock. There's always reinforcements. Eventually, Satoshi dies. End of story.
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If there's no reason for the cg to show up then the stream stops. Alaya can't kill him, as I said I can't reveal why just yet. The word paradox is involved though.
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If there's no reason for the cg to show up then the stream stops. Alaya can't kill him, as I said I can't reveal why just yet. The word paradox is involved though.
...He interfered with them. Logically, he's a threat to the world if he stops a Counter Guardian from doing it's duty. Therefore, extermination is a priority of Alaya, as he is a threat to humanity due to interfering with it's protecting humanity.
And Paradox is always a lazy cop out excuse.
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He travels in time and space (space refers to other universes in this case) paradox is warranted by the nature of the story. It's not lazy it's just a normal part of stories like his.
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He travels in time and space (space refers to other universes in this case) paradox is warranted by the nature of the story. It's not not lazy it's just a normal part of stories like his.
Here's the thing - dying in a timeline by interfering with a counter guardian while you still exist - it isn't a paradox. You can still die before you were born in a parallel reality or your own timeline. Because you dying in your timeline still means you exists - and in fact if you DON'T you might never exist. Self correcting timelines are a wonderful thing.
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There's only one of him Arch, can't explain further.
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Well, to elaborate on what Magos is saying further, the Counter Guardians and their interaction with their target isn't too far off from what happens in the human immune system. Even if a cell is healthy, if it displays or is missing the the right receptors, your T-cells are going to kill it regardless. Same with the CGs and Alaya. Anything Alaya designates as a threat the CGs go after to destroy, even if they aren't actually causing a problem. That's a huge reason why Archer is as angry and bitter as he is about being a Counter Guardian.
Interfering with that designates Toshi as a target. He's going to cause more damage trying to stop them than he is just ignoring them. Unlike with the human body, where killing healthy cells is kinda bad and the immune system has checks and balances to keep that from happening, humanity will ultimately be fine even if the CGs do their job, as awful as it is. And by the point they start their work, things are pretty bad anyway, so it needs to be done. So Toshi is actually causing more problems than he's solving.
Also, being able to withstand even a whole hoard of CGs and even having the strength to go toe to toe with a True Ancestor makes Toshi way overpowered. I honestly think his power levels need some serious toning down, he's way too overpowered as he is.
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I know full well how the cg system works. I never weighed in on whether Satoshi's actions were good or bad in the big picture I simply stated what his objective was, save innocent people. Frankly if he let people die this wouldn't be a story about a hero. He faces a hoard twice as I already stated and ducks one fight and loses the other so withstanding a horde is an incorrect assumption.
as for Arc Alice. Did you read Tsukihime? Because there's two very different versions of Arc presented and 30% was stated by Nasu to be about equal to Gilgamesh so going toe to toe with her isn't unbelievable at all.
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I know full well how the cg system works. I never weighed in on whether Satoshi's actions were good or bad in the big picture I simply stated what his objective was, save innocent people. Frankly if he let people die this wouldn't be a story about a hero. He faces a hoard twice as I already stated and ducks one fight and loses the other so withstanding a horde is an incorrect assumption.
as for Arc Alice. Did you read Tsukihime? Because there's two very different versions of Arc presented and 30% was stated by Nasu to be about equal to Gilgamesh so going toe to toe with her isn't unbelievable at all.
The fact though that he isn't constantly attacked is unbelievable. And the fact that it took a HORDE to kill him is also unbelievable, along with the fact that he escaped the first one. Hell, even being able to go toe to toe with a CG is unbelievable unless you're Arc or Gilgamesh. Or maybe one of the Shiki's or [ ].
The thing is - Arc is only at that power level (Temporarily) because SHIKI FUCKING CUT A BITCH. Otherwise, she's easily able to stop basically everything.
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Alaya is not consistent between worlds arch. Multiverse. I read tsukihime Arch, they stressed the temporary bit there as well but it doesn't matter if she'll get her powers back after the fight, fight's over and arc is not a vengeful stupid bitch face who will hunt him down. And again you assume fight means win.
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It's hardly heroic if his actions ultimately lead to more deaths than he's trying to prevent, however. Plus if they can't actually kill him as you say, there's no way they can stop him from messing things up, and he'll end up destroying everything in the end. That's where it's a huge problem. And as for the latter, you didn't make that clear, so I couldn'tve known that.
And as for Arc, the difference between her and Gil is that Gil tends to be even weaker than normal against most opponents thanks to the whole, "King of Carelessness" thing. From what I remember, Serious Gilgamesh and 30% Arc are about the same power level. Shirou was only able to take Gil down because he had a great counter to Gil's moveset and because Gil didn't take him very seriously.
To be able to take down a serious Gilgamesh or even an Arc at 30% is no small feat. Hell, even in Extra, de-powered as a Berserker she still gave Hakuno and her/his Servant a reallly hard time. Even as Saber's son, he shouldn't be able to fight her on even ground like that, not easily. Even if you say he'd possibly lose, the fact that he can give Gil a run for his money by doing so makes him a bit on the overpowered side.
Combined with all the toys Toshi seems to have at his disposal, the problem is that he comes off as too strong with too many powers with too few weaknesses, which can take something major out of a story.
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Alaya is not consistent between worlds arch. Multiverse. I read tsukihime Arch, they stressed the temporary bit there as well but it doesn't matter if she'll get her powers back after the fight, fight's over and arc is not a vengeful stupid bitch face who will hunt him down. And again you assume fight means win.
>"Alaya is not consistant between worlds"
>Alaya is linked to the throne
>Throne of Heroes is consistent between worlds
>Therefore Alaya is consistent between worlds. Your statement is false
THEN WHEN IS THE FIGHT TAKING PLACE? I know she won't seek vengance but to me Satoshi is seeming more and more like a wish fullfilment fantasy sue by the second.
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Alaya doesn't exist in every universe, because alaya only exists when humans do so. Further they cannot kill him because of the paradox.
Arc isn't a when but a which.
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Double post because Alice's post only just showed up for some reason.
regarding his dealings with the cg I'm sorry but you gripe that he's a Mary sue but protest an obvious character flaw slash mistake on his part. You're sending mixed signals at best.
who said Arc was serious? I certainly never did. As for Gilgamesh well, frankly he is for some time the main antagonist in a way. So becoming good enough to beat him is a standard matter of story telling, I'm not writing a tragic story about the villains winning.
as for his toys, you might want to name them.
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...I think you managed to misinterpret most everything I said.
First of all, Sues can make mistakes and still be sue-ish, but that's not the main point here. The problem is that the canon stuff has no way to counter him, and as far as I know, Toshi's supposed to be seen as in the right here, or at least heroic. So if he destroys the world in his misguided attempts to save people from CGs, there's nothing to prevent the destruction he causes. That's actually somewhat villainous, but we're supposed to still see Toshi as this paragon of everything good and right that just made a shortsighted mistake, which isn't what this is.
Plus being able to withstand hoards upon hoards of CGs is, again, way too strong. The fact that he can travel through time to begin with is way too much, especially with how strong he already is.
And I said 30% Arc was about as strong as Serious Gil, I never said anything about her being serious. What I said is that even if she's just playing around or not at full power, she should still be giving him a hell of a time.
And in this case for beating Gil, it's a matter of presentation. Shirou comes off as more reasonable as Toshi because he's exploiting some of Gil's weaknesses even though he's weak, whereas Toshi comes off as way too strong just from how he's presented, and also with too few flaws, so it just feels cheap when Toshi does it because it feels like he's pulling powers out of nowhere. There's no satisfaction in that victory.
And Toshi can travel through time, has the Dragon reactor, can summon knights at will, can create magic armor out of nothing, can make a castle out of thin air, can heal constantly, has Avalon, is immune to elemental damage, has at least three overpowered swords, has magic on par with Merlin, has a Reality Marble where he can force anyone inside to do whatever he wishes if he beats them, plus a variety of other powers.
Plus the ability to make crowds swoon at his hotness when he lands when they should be running like hell away from the smoldering crater full of Grail Mud. In other words, it's way too much. Maybe people can beat him, but it sure doesn't feel or seem like it from what you've presented to us.
And he also has no actual weaknesses, physical or psychological other than the stereotypical one of "his family" and that some people can beat him... somehow that I'm aware of. He has pretty much no personality flaws that aren't there thanks to outside interpretation of the character. Again, it's all in the presentation.
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The character sheet does not reflect any given more or the growth between those points. He doesn't have the dragon he IS the dragon. There's a big difference. As for him being right I never said that, indeed the lack of a clear option is part of the point.
no idea what you mean by the crap about hotness.
he does not withstand a horde of them Alice, this the third time I've said as much. Please pay attention.
as for Arc the narration never says a word about the fight only that it happened.
As for Gilgamesh you are just making assumptions about their fights as you've seen none of them and indeed in the prologue Satoshi briefly references loses to Gilgamesh in a four on one assault.
His reality marble has limits and it establishes a fair fight which includes the fighters choosing the condition of their opponents's loss. That's not over powered because both fighters have to obey the conditions set out. It's an equalizer.
the weapons and powers granted him on that sheet are earned slowly through hardship like any hero (except Perseus) and given that he's over two thousand I'd say he hasn't gained very much given the setting.
Satoshi cannot travel through time. He is made to do so with or by others. Same goes for world hopping.
the castle wasn't out of thin air nor was the arm our. That's just you not reading my rp posts. And he built the knights he did not summon them.
he has plenty of weaknesses Alice, I'm just not shoving a big neon sign over them.
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He literally is a dragon? Isn't that a bit much? And the problem is that none of us have seen that growth, so we don't have much to go off of in that regard.
The hotness thing is in reference to this: http://darksidemoon.net/SMF_forum/index.php/topic,78.msg3679.html#msg3679 (http://darksidemoon.net/SMF_forum/index.php/topic,78.msg3679.html#msg3679)
Specifically this part:
Rising from the wreckage Satoshi slowly walked out of the crater which was soaked in grail mud and projected a biohazard barrier as his wounds closed. The pain was dull, barely noteworthy if not for the fact that he was shirtless and his looks combined with the massive dragon tattoo on his back was drawing a lot of attention from people especially women who probably thought he was a bad boy. He was but not in the way they thought, Satoshi smiled doing the best impersonation of himself he could manage "sorry about this ladies, I'll send some guys to clean it up, promise" he remarked jogging off to get lost into the city before those lunatics attacked him again.
They should be running away from the wreckage, not checking out Toshi. The way it's stated here makes it clear that they aren't checking out Toshi because they're scared of him, they're checking him out because they find him attractive.
And the problem is that we haven't seen these weaknesses, nor have you told us what his weaknesses are. We can only go off what we know lantz. It's not like people are telepathic and can read what you're thinking through the computer screen, we don't know unless you tell us.
Again, it's all about presentation. A Mary Sue can still be a Sue without having all the powers Toshi has, after all. It's the way Toshi is presented to us and the array of powers he has. Even in his weaker form, he still seems to be portrayed as too perfect. The fact that he gets constant praise from "Taiga" and "Sakura" in the RP doesn't help matters.
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A crowd gathered at the site to see what happened. And the mud was inert, no real danger. As for the women checking him out that was more showing a change in attitude rather than pointing out they found him cute.
Taiga praises him because he's her big brother. She'll believe in him forever.
Sakura you have grossly misunderstood.
if you want to know his weaknesses then pay attention. I'm not about giving directions to that stuff, read and you'll be able to piece it together.
no it's not really too much. His soul was bound to a dragon and when that dragon gave him the rite and later passed away their souls finally unified. Simple fantasy stuff.
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Here's the thing - by the time the CG's are called in the situation has reached the point where wholesale slaughter is the best option because otherwise humanity is fucked. By interfering with the CG's he's basically painting himself to Alaya as a threat to humanity.
I don't think that's actually quite true. Counter Guardians are a blunt instrument, they can't do anything but wholesale slaughter. Them being summoned doesn't mean that wholesale slaughter is the only or best option, just that there is an imminent threat which can't be dealt with by normal people.
Have you ever seen the Terminator? Or read fiction about hivemind armies? Units working in perfect tandem with each other are fucking scary opponents because they work together perfectly without error or hesitation. They're willing to sacrifice themselves for a fleeting advantage to allow another to land the fatal blow. It's why they AREN'T useless. It's why Human Wave tactics work, quantity eventually makes quality irrelevant if you can't stop the tide.
It depends who they are fighting. An opponent with intelligence and enough ability can take advantage of their stupidity to kill a large chunk of them in one go. Also, technically, he wouldn't need to stop the CGs indefinitely, he'd just need to stop them for long enough for everyone to escape and, ideally, for the actual problem to be dealt with.
They'd then just adapt and come in force immediately every time he shows up. Alaya isn't stupid.
Honestly, I don't see any indication of Alaya possessing the capacity to do such a thing. Plus, if he's dealing with the actual problem then Alaya should be fine with that. It doesn't particularly care about being stopped as long as the mess is cleaned up.
...He interfered with them. Logically, he's a threat to the world if he stops a Counter Guardian from doing it's duty. Therefore, extermination is a priority of Alaya, as he is a threat to humanity due to interfering with it's protecting humanity.
And Paradox is always a lazy cop out excuse.
I don't think that Alaya works like that. It only deals with immediate threats, not potential threats. Hence why it doesn't send a whole bunch of CGs at Sakura in HF.
Well, to elaborate on what Magos is saying further, the Counter Guardians and their interaction with their target isn't too far off from what happens in the human immune system. Even if a cell is healthy, if it displays or is missing the the right receptors, your T-cells are going to kill it regardless. Same with the CGs and Alaya. Anything Alaya designates as a threat the CGs go after to destroy, even if they aren't actually causing a problem. That's a huge reason why Archer is as angry and bitter as he is about being a Counter Guardian.
Yeah, but if the cell gets cured by some other method, the immune system stops attacking it.
Interfering with that designates Toshi as a target. He's going to cause more damage trying to stop them than he is just ignoring them. Unlike with the human body, where killing healthy cells is kinda bad and the immune system has checks and balances to keep that from happening, humanity will ultimately be fine even if the CGs do their job, as awful as it is. And by the point they start their work, things are pretty bad anyway, so it needs to be done. So Toshi is actually causing more problems than he's solving.
He's not causing problems, though, as long as he deals with the mess. CGs might stop the danger growing, but they do not do so in a particularly efficient way. They just kill everything in sight and then disappear.
It's hardly heroic if his actions ultimately lead to more deaths than he's trying to prevent, however.
Yes, it is. Just like MoS Shirou is not a hero despite the fact that his actions saved lives in the long run.
If you save innocent people, you are a hero, full stop. It doesn't matter if doing so incidentally lets something worse happen. Particularly when you make every effort to prevent it happening.
Plus if they can't actually kill him as you say, there's no way they can stop him from messing things up, and he'll end up destroying everything in the end.
He's not destroying anything. He deals with the problem.
The problem here is that you're assuming CGs act in a manner that is designed to minimise human casualties, as opposed to just ensuring the survival of humanity at all costs. It is quite possible for the problem to be resolved without killing everyone in sight, CGs just don't because they don't have the intelligence to do so.
>"Alaya is not consistant between worlds"
>Alaya is linked to the throne
>Throne of Heroes is consistent between worlds
>Therefore Alaya is consistent between worlds. Your statement is false
THEN WHEN IS THE FIGHT TAKING PLACE? I know she won't seek vengance but to me Satoshi is seeming more and more like a wish fullfilment fantasy sue by the second.
Actually, it's not even clear that the Throne is consistent between worlds. Certainly I remember an argument on BL that implied it is not. And Alaya certainly shouldn't be. Alaya is the spirit of humanity, and I don't see how that could realistically travel between worlds. Plus, if Alaya is a multiversal entity, then humanity is never in real danger, because there will always be other universes. So, CGs should never be needed. If one world dies, there are an infinite number of others.
First of all, Sues can make mistakes and still be sue-ish, but that's not the main point here. The problem is that the canon stuff has no way to counter him, and as far as I know, Toshi's supposed to be seen as in the right here, or at least heroic. So if he destroys the world in his misguided attempts to save people from CGs, there's nothing to prevent the destruction he causes.
He's not causing any destruction, and he is a hero. Allowing innocent people to be murdered because they're in the wrong place at the wrong time is not something any real hero should do.
That's actually somewhat villainous, but we're supposed to still see Toshi as this paragon of everything good and right that just made a shortsighted mistake, which isn't what this is.
No, it fucking isn't. Saving innocent people is not villainous. Ever.
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Saving innocents definitely isn't bad, no. But when the action that's attempting to save people a handful of people could cause thousands to die, no questions asked, then it's a bit different. We don't even have the justification of them being loved ones in this case. Taking risks to try to save even more innocents isn't bad, but a gamble on this grand of a scale is too risky and could cause far too many deaths as compared to lives saved.
Again, CGs only show up when some real bad shit is going down. The better solution is to always try and prevent the thing that would warrant CGs appearing to begin with, not stopping them once they've already shown up.
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You raise a lot of good points Mike and pretty much sum up any counter argument I would have made but frankly I don't think it is a productive use of thread space to argue further about alaya's sweepers, Nasu has set them up as a completely inhumane option to the problem. If Alice and Arch want to think they are unbeatable or correct in what they do that is there business. The Counter Guardians are not well defined in terms of the multiverse or their interaction to the throne and it's clear in swords dancers that Archerko stops Archer without retribution and without Nasu further explaining the cg I simply choose not to accept their interpretation which is my right.
let's move on to other questions now.
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Saving innocents definitely isn't bad, no. But when the action that's attempting to save people a handful of people could cause thousands to die, no questions asked, then it's a bit different. We don't even have the justification of them being loved ones in this case. Taking risks to try to save even more innocents isn't bad, but a gamble on this grand of a scale is too risky and could cause far too many deaths as compared to lives saved.
"Could" is not the same as "will". Heroes don't take the easy option, they save the innocents no matter what.
And, it's not a "handful" of people, it can be hundreds of thousands. If the Grail had been summoned in Fuyuki then I think the entire town would have been destroyed.
Again, CGs only show up when some real bad shit is going down. The better solution is to always try and prevent the thing that would warrant CGs appearing to begin with, not stopping them once they've already shown up.
Well, yes, definitely, but I'm assuming there is a reason Toshi could not do that.
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If Alice and Arch want to think they are unbeatable or correct in what they do that is there business.
lantz, being smug about how wrong we must be really isn't the way to go right now. It's quite frankly kinda insulting.
And using a doujin as if it were canon and in any way valid is a really stupid move. It doesn't actually count.
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Satoshi is rarely given a choice on his journey where to go or when.
And Archerko is a character in Swords and Sorcery so her canon is relevant guys so er, sorry Arch but active continuity Trumps your argument in this case.
I'm not being smug I'm stating a fact. You are allowed to believe your interpretation of the facts but they aren't clear enough to confirm anything. And as I said above Archerko is a character in the story Alice, it would be stupid to ignore her canon.
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Well names regarding the index I believe I have everything brought over, apart from Shinji's route (which I'm having beta'd) it's all there.
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Sword Dancers isn't canon Lantz. At all. In the slightest. And you're still wrong and violating canon in god knows how many fucking ways with your interpretation of CG's. BECAUSE ARCHERKO DOES NOT EXIST IN CANON. SHE'S A FUCKING DOUJIN CHARACTER.
As for the saving people argument, here's a hypothetical scenario - There's a train about to hit five people on the tracks. You're standing next to someone you don't know. You don't know the people on the tracks. If you shove the person standing next to you onto the tracks, he will die but the train will not hit those five people. Shoving this guy on the track will save innocent people. So by your logic mike, shoving this dude on the tracks in cold blood to save those five people isn't a villainous action, despite it obviously being murder.
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Don't like it Arch then don't read it. The fic involves multiverse travel and Archerko is a character in the story. Swords dancers is acceptable fanon until the word of god says otherwise.
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Don't like it Arch then don't read it. The fic involves multiverse travel and Archerko is a character in the story. Swords dancers is acceptable fanon until the word of god says otherwise.
...Lantz. Jesus christ. That statement contains EVERYTHING WRONG WITH YOU AS AN AUTHOR. Don't like don't read kills criticism, kills discussion, creates hugboxes of like minded sycophants that will praise anything you put out without questioning the quality contained within.
To elaborate on Mike's post of "Well, they didn't go after Sakura in HF" well, here's why: She hadn't done shit yet to interfere with Alaya or destroy the world. Sure she was GOING to, but not yet. Satoshi on the other hand deliberately interferes with CG's. That's an action, and a threat to the world's safety. So Alaya simply won't stop until he's wiped out.
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Sword Dancers isn't canon Lantz. At all. In the slightest. And you're still wrong and violating canon in god knows how many fucking ways with your interpretation of CG's. BECAUSE ARCHERKO DOES NOT EXIST IN CANON. SHE'S A FUCKING DOUJIN CHARACTER.
Sword Dancers isn't canon for the Nasuverse, but it is also unlikely that it explicitly violates canon. And, if he is violating canon, please explain how he is doing so, because I'm not seeing it.
Also, Lantz did say that he didn't want to continue this further, and I see his point, so it might be a good idea if we drop it....
As for the saving people argument, here's a hypothetical scenario - There's a train about to hit five people on the tracks. You're standing next to someone you don't know. You don't know the people on the tracks. If you shove the person standing next to you onto the tracks, he will die but the train will not hit those five people. Shoving this guy on the track will save innocent people. So by your logic mike, shoving this dude on the tracks in cold blood to save those five people isn't a villainous action, despite it obviously being murder.
Erm, what?
That's nothing like what I'm arguing. In fact, what you are arguing is that, if someone is about to shove said person onto the tracks, it would be a villianous act to prevent them doing so. I don't see how preventing a villainous act can possibly be a villainous act....
Don't like it Arch then don't read it. The fic involves multiverse travel and Archerko is a character in the story. Swords dancers is acceptable fanon until the word of god says otherwise.
...Lantz. Jesus christ. That statement contains EVERYTHING WRONG WITH YOU AS AN AUTHOR. Don't like don't read kills criticism, kills discussion, creates hugboxes of like minded sycophants that will praise anything you put out without questioning the quality contained within.
It's also entirely sensible advice. There are always going to be fics that people don't like, and it is ludicrous to complain about aspects of them that are explicit author decisions rather than mistakes (especially when it involves deciding to add aspects of doujins and the like into your fic). Unless the author is being a complete dick (e.g. bashing), anyway, and even then there is no point in going on and on at them every chance you get.
And, yes, I am well aware I am not great at taking this advice either....
To elaborate on Mike's post of "Well, they didn't go after Sakura in HF" well, here's why: She hadn't done shit yet to interfere with Alaya or destroy the world. Sure she was GOING to, but not yet. Satoshi on the other hand deliberately interferes with CG's. That's an action, and a threat to the world's safety. So Alaya simply won't stop until he's wiped out.
I think you're assigning far much intelligence and foresight to Alaya there. It might try to kill Satoshi, but once he stops being an immediate danger I doubt it will put any extra effort into doing so.
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Sword Dancers isn't canon Lantz. At all. In the slightest. And you're still wrong and violating canon in god knows how many fucking ways with your interpretation of CG's. BECAUSE ARCHERKO DOES NOT EXIST IN CANON. SHE'S A FUCKING DOUJIN CHARACTER.
Sword Dancers isn't canon for the Nasuverse, but it is also unlikely that it explicitly violates canon. And, if he is violating canon, please explain how he is doing so, because I'm not seeing it.
Also, Lantz did say that he didn't want to continue this further, and I see his point, so it might be a good idea if we drop it....
As for the saving people argument, here's a hypothetical scenario - There's a train about to hit five people on the tracks. You're standing next to someone you don't know. You don't know the people on the tracks. If you shove the person standing next to you onto the tracks, he will die but the train will not hit those five people. Shoving this guy on the track will save innocent people. So by your logic mike, shoving this dude on the tracks in cold blood to save those five people isn't a villainous action, despite it obviously being murder.
Erm, what?
That's nothing like what I'm arguing. In fact, what you are arguing is that, if someone is about to shove said person onto the tracks, it would be a villianous act to prevent them doing so. I don't see how preventing a villainous act can possibly be a villainous act....
>Archerko
>Surviving Ilya
>Something Zoukenyish
Yeah, it's pretty obviously not canon.
So you're saying it's heroic to let 5 people die to save one person?
The question is as much about ethics as it is heroics. Ethically speaking, pushing someone onto the tracks and killing them even to save five people, is murder. No way around that. However, Heroically speaking. Congrats. You just saved five people by throwing one under the bus.
Ethically, you're letting someone die either way. So why not save the maximum amount of people? Interfering with the counter guardians is like letting those five die to save one. In the long run, it'll ruin you. That's what satoshi is doing every time he STOPS a CG from doing it's job. He's letting five people die by train so he doesn't have to shove one in front of it.
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I think you're assigning far much intelligence and foresight to Alaya there. It might try to kill Satoshi, but once he stops being an immediate danger I doubt it will put any extra effort into doing so.
AHAHAHA. His actions proved he's an immediate danger to the world. Think of Alaya like a simple AI. It's got a logic path, and there's no way of reversing its decision. Once it decides to destroy something, it won't stop until it's gone.
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Nasu didn't define what the counter force and guardians are in detail. As such I've use available information, theories and since Archerko is an active character in the story established those details as part of the cg frame work. It's a fiction about the mulriverse so frankly there's going to be a lot of non canon stuff popping up, nothing to do about it really.
Seriously nasu established anything as possible so I'm taking advantage of that. Don't like it arch then don't read it.
and seriously now, let's move on to other questions please.
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There's still the problem of how suish Satoshi is and how he's literally dooming the world through interfering.
Congrats lantz, you just made the character most likely to be responsible for an apocolypse in the Nasuverse.
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That is your opinion Arch. Take it and leave if you have no more questions relevant to the thread or stay if you want to ask others unrelated to the counter guardian thing. As of now I'll be clear, we have reached an impasse of opinion on this topic so changing topics is prudent.
in short ask other questions please.
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That is your opinion Arch. Take it and leave if you have no more questions relevant to the thread or stay if you want to ask others unrelated to the counter guardian thing. As of now I'll be clear, we have reached an impasse of opinion on this topic so changing topics is prudent.
in short ask other questions please.
Why the fuck does Satoshi have three swords, one of which is fucking Mordreds.
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Made two of them, took mordreds sword when he won a fight.
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I... what? How? What?
Lantz, you're driving me crazy with just how fucking black hole sue Satoshi is. Why the hell does he have 4 names? Why the hell does he have a dragon tatoo? Why the hell is he so overpowered? Why the hell is he such a fucking arrogant prick? Why the fuck does he have spellcasting on the tier of merlin? Why the fuck does he have or is a fucking Dragon? Why the hell don't you fucking EXPLAIN SHIT!?!?!?!?
Nostalgia Critic "EXPLAAAAAAAIN NUKE" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OD0v9kvlMOA#)
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Okay, Magos, regardless of what you think of Satoshi, please chill out man. You're posts are only getting angrier, and I doubt you'll get your answers as such. Just let it be for a while.
EDIT: Oh, what an appropriate video.
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I won't answer those questions as they are leading questions. Is there anything else?
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I won't answer those questions as they are leading questions. Is there anything else?
>Leading Questions
...I don't think that means what you think it means. Answer the damn questions lantz. Explain shit because we're not psychic. We need an explanation, because otherwise, we have no clue as to what's happening.d
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Why 4 names?
Why the dragon tatoo?
Why the hell is he so overpowered? X
Why the hell is he such a fucking arrogant prick? X
How come he has spellcasting abilities on par with Merlin?
Why is he a Dragon?
Actually, not counting the two I crossed out, those are valid questions.
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It's not four names. Some families when the family names are important enough sign a birth certificate with both last names being legal. Shirou and Saber are fairly respectful and sensitive to each and decided that it would be the best way rather then giving him one name or the other. And Alexander is his middle name.
the dragon tattoo is a bonding mark signifying his connection to the dragon.
he is a dragon because Merlin merged him with one. Unlike Saber who has descended power his soul is kinda like the dragon's property.
Merlin teaches him magic, regular magic training doesn't work for Satoshi.
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It's not four names. Some families when the family names are important enough sign a birth certificate with both last names being legal. Shirou and Saber are fairly respectful and sensitive to each and decided that it would be the best way rather then giving him one name or the other. And Alexander is his middle name.
No, I understand that (and it's still four names: first name, middle name, last names); I have four names in fact. But the Japanese don't use two surnames. And middle names are extremely rare (though more common with mixed parentage, so I'll give you that). Best case scenario is the father taking his wife's surname, but that's it.
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Satoshi is only half-Japanese, though. And, given his heritage, I could understand both parents wanting him to have their name.
Whether it's legally possible in Japan I'm not sure, though. And, similarly, I'm not sure Alexander would be a legal name in Japan either.
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Satoshi is only half-Japanese, though. And, given his heritage, I could understand both parents wanting him to have their name.
Whether it's legally possible in Japan I'm not sure, though. And, similarly, I'm not sure Alexander would be a legal name in Japan either.
It wouldn't be. You have to IIRC, adopt a completely Japanese name if you become a naturalized citizen, so I doubt that they'd allow a second Sirname or a very western middle name.
For that matter, the "ONLY MERLIN CAN TEACH HIM MAGIC BECAUSE HE'S SPESIAL" screams Sue lantz.
On top of that, wouldn't he have LESS dragon power than Saber due to the bloodline being diluted?
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Satoshi is only half-Japanese, though. And, given his heritage, I could understand both parents wanting him to have their name.
Whether it's legally possible in Japan I'm not sure, though. And, similarly, I'm not sure Alexander would be a legal name in Japan either.
From what I looked, it's a bit complicated. You can have one or the other, but not both. Look here (http://www.ofix.or.jp/life/eng/marriage/08.html):
Your child takes your Japanese spouse’s surname because he will be entered in the family registry of the Japanese parent. If you want your child to have your foreign family name, there are two ways to do so. One is to change your Japanese spouse name to your foreign surname before giving birth to a baby (in this case your child will be entered in your spouse’s family registry). And the other way is to apply to the family court for the change of the child’s family to that of your surname (in this case your child’s independent family registration will be created.)
Middle names are fine, I think, though it would be a bit complicated to the Japanese (for one, they don't allow a space to separate first and middle). He can have a middle name, in his foreign passport, though.
Satoshi is only half-Japanese, though. And, given his heritage, I could understand both parents wanting him to have their name.
Whether it's legally possible in Japan I'm not sure, though. And, similarly, I'm not sure Alexander would be a legal name in Japan either.
It wouldn't be. You have to IIRC, adopt a completely Japanese name if you become a naturalized citizen, so I doubt that they'd allow a second Sirname or a very western middle name.
Actually, I found this:
Japanese citizenship used to require adoption of a Japanese name. In recent decades, the government has allowed individuals to simply adopt katakana versions of their native names when applying for citizenship
Honestly, the two surnames are more of a problem than the middle name.
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Okay, found info on the middle name (http://www.japan-guide.com/forum/quereadisplay.html?0+4012):
There are countries that allow official middle names and there are countries/cultures where it is even natural to have multiple names.
Say one parent is an U.S. citizen and the child owns an U.S. citizenship. This child can have his/her middle name registered in his/her U.S. birth cirtificate.
Say the same child's other parent is Japanese and the child has a Japanese citizenship as well. This child cannot register any middle names in the official Japanese registeration (koseki). Typical options are to put the first name and middle name together and register it as one first name, or another option is to simply register the first name and family name only and keep the middle name as something unofficial.
For example, all Japanese Christians (I don't mean half-Japanese) have baptismal names other than the first name. Almost all of them do not register this baptismal name at the city hall, but treasure the name and use it in Christian rituals.
He can have it, but it wouldn't be legally recognized by the Japanese government. So, it's either unofficial in Japan, or legally stuck with his first name (so, Satoshiarekusandaa).
Of course, that is if he was born in Japan.
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He signs with Emiya OR Pendragon, not both. He introduces himself in full because Sella insisted he do so.
saber is descended power, Satoshi was unified with the dragon. His power is full rather than in part.
and Merlin teaching him magic because the old man wrecked his body is just good character. Fyi though Satoshi is more Micky than Harry.
in Japan he only uses his Japanese names kaiza
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Ah, so it's the former. I'll assume he signs Emiya in Japan for official stuff, as that would be the only one legally recognizable in that case.
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and Merlin teaching him magic because the old man wrecked his body is just good character. Fyi though Satoshi is more Micky than Harry.
I have no idea what you just said here, I can't make heads or tails of this. It's like a clusterfuck of words and gibberish in some odd code that drives men mad when they try to decipher it.
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Probably means Merlin screwed him up somehow (lolplot, I guess?), and to make up for it taught him magic. I think, I don't get the reference in the second line.
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Ah, so it's the former. I'll assume he signs Emiya in Japan for official stuff, as that would be the only one legally recognizable in that case.
Yeah, Lantz said he only uses the Japanese names in Japan.
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Would be more "stamping his seal" than "signing his name", though, now that I think about it. Eh, details.
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Micky mouse and Harry Potter guys. In reference to how he learns magic. He was more Micky than Harry. Watch more old cartoons.
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Oooh. Mickey and Harry Potter. Sorry, just the names out of context can muddle the reference.
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Probably means Merlin screwed him up somehow (lolplot, I guess?), and to make up for it taught him magic. I think, I don't get the reference in the second line.
>Merlin doing anything out of the kindness of his heart
Calling bullshit.
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You have no idea how right you are arch
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Anyway I think I should speak up and takes questions about the lemon works since they are a part of my more common stuff (since they are shorter) I often see people critical of this kind of work so this is a good time to take questions.
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Updated the main page with new information
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Yeah, I never really got why people couldn't understand that Flesh and Fantasy was not serious and didn't imply Satoshi would be able to just fuck every girl in sight whenever he liked. I don't recall most true porn (as opposed to erotica which has porn in it but also a serious story) being overly realistic.
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I don't either but apparently some people are massively butt mad so I thought I would explain it.
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Updated the front page again
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Just want to put this to rest once and for all.
I do take criticism.
what I do is internalize it. It is a 4 stage process of evaluation, analysis, consideration and adjustment. If the subject reaches stage four then I alter my work to fit the critique. If not then I don't change anything.
Evaluation is stage one and a simple process. Is the criticism valid on a social level? Questions about why something is X when normally Y are valid. Blah blah shitty, blah blah Mary sue blah blah paper shredder are not. In short be respectful and you pass.
analysis is stage two. Is the objection based on fact or is it here say and or opinion? If factual it gets carted along to stage three but if it is otherwise opinion or a debatable subject then it gets stalled and either discussed in a civil manner and then either accepted based on a convincing argument or rejected for a lack thereof. It is also rejected if a critic gets rude by not accepting a disagreement of opinion in the first place
Consideration is stage three. This stage has to do with premise and story consideration. Can the primary purpose of the story be achieved if critique is followed? If yes then move to stage four, if no then the process ends here.
adjustment is stage four and is the application of received critique. Simple as that.
Fan fiction is a recreational activity and as such should be a joy. If you don't like a subject do not read it, similarly a writer shouldn't write what they hate.
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Once more, the 'Don't like don't read' kills criticism. It's just a crutch you use to try and escape it.
When are you going to post this in the BL thread, or have you forgotten that exists?
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Once more, the 'Don't like don't read' kills criticism. It's just a crutch you use to try and escape it.
No, it is a valid statement. For example, if I start complaining about Sakura's treatment in a fic about MoS Shirou then the only sensible response is probably that. What it is not, however, is a catch-all excuse to justify ignoring all criticism. You have to at least consider the criticism first, and if it has actual validity (as opposed to being mere opinion) then you should act on it.
When are you going to post this in the BL thread, or have you forgotten that exists?
I think he's ignoring BL now.
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I think he's ignoring BL now.
What, because they are able to express a dislike for the fic, and provide a load of valid criticism? They aren't all screaming at him, and they do provide valid points, but if Lantz wants to shoot himself in the food over it, go ahead. Just because they don't like it doesn't mean he should throw the baby out with the bathwater.
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Don't like don't read is a valid reply, I hate the stupid current reboots of comics so I don't read them, similarly I don't like ShirouXRin stuff so I don't read it. Same goes for others and my work.
why drag yourself through hell? Doesn't make sense.
and some people give valid criticism however more often they don't or they refuse to pay attention to my replies that dispell the issues fairly.
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Because your responses don't dispel the issues, most of the time you just say "Yes this seeming inconsistency will be explained in time", or don't answer at all to criticism you don't reject openly.
Which isn't an answer, it's a dismissal. A "Try again later!" of sorts.
Perhaps a simple "ok" or "I'll think on that" when you see a piece of criticism you don't fully disagree with would help convince people you don't ignore criticism. I mean, if you don't let them know you take it in, of course they'll think you aren't listening.
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Because your responses don't dispel the issues, most of the time you just say "Yes this seeming inconsistency will be explained in time", or don't answer at all to criticism you don't reject openly.
Which isn't an answer, it's a dismissal. A "Try again later!" of sorts.
Perhaps a simple "ok" or "I'll think on that" when you see a piece of criticism you don't fully disagree with would help convince people you don't ignore criticism. I mean, if you don't let them know you take it in, of course they'll think you aren't listening.
Right. This is your main problem - you never actually answer anything, even when pressed about it.
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Sorry but I've been very clear about my position on spoilers, as such "it will be explained in time" is an answer.
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but what about criticism that you actually go "hm I'll think on that" to yourself to and that you should respond with "Hm I'll think on that kthnkx" to the person who told you about it?
It'd help the negative responses you get from everywhere in that you're showing you're listening.
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I've done that before, sadly it doesn't work, they simply take that as cause to start bitching about every last thing.
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"how dare you fucking think about our criticism, you little bitch. There'll be no such acceptance of criticism in this place, oh fucking no. MODS BAN THIS DIRTY FILTH"
Kind of like that?
Or is it more that they take acceptance as a reason to, you know, give you more criticism?
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Something in the middle although a few like Arch are like the former.
I've been clear about Mary sue being an insult for example and yet he still believes he can use that and be taken seriously.
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The truth is always hard to face lantz.
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Your "truth" is garbage as far as I am concerned
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It isn't garbage when each word of mine rings true. Satoshi is such a sue it hurts me Lantz. It hurts me physically.
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Utter garbage
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Magos, please cut it out. You are entitled to your opinion, but constantly calling Lantz's characters Mary Sues is not constructive in any way, and nor are stupid arguments about whether or not you are talking "garbage".
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Well let's look at it this way: Satoshi is:
A dragon, with all the inanely powerful magic circuits and fire breath that implies**
The owner of a reality marble*
The product of three of the stronkest wizards getting together to protect spacetime**
The true owner of avalon*
Unaging
two thousand years old
A pseudo-lich with his phylactery stand-in in Avalon, making him completely immortal as no one can get there
The owner of a kamen rider transformation device*
A dimension hopper/time traveler*
incapable of running out of prana because of being hooked up to avalon*
an abhorrently strong magus with spells rivaling a highly capable magus in an age where magecraft was stronger than it is nowadays**
A master of dozens of martial arts
Immune to the elements*
Immune to sneak attacks*
Blessed with divine protection
Capable of Resurrection, in the nasuverse of all places**
The owner of Clarent, Mordred's sword*
The owner of a really edgy madness inducing blade*
The owner of a fire-blocking whip***
Somehow not a killer despite going through a berserker phase*
Forget dubious or questionable character creation, this is outright bad. If you can spread your character's traits around and get at least eight characters that are broken/overpowered in their own way, you know something's wrong. That something being: The original character that every single one of those OP traits came from.
He's not a character, he's a brainstorming sheet filled with possible abilities and gimmicks, until you just stopped wanting to brainstorm what to put in and you just threw it all into a story. And being a sheet, it has the personality and intellect of paper.
And yes, I can make that last statement accurately: I haven't read your story nor will I ever, but if you're roleplaying him correctly, he's a bland, personality-less character with the consistency of a schizophrenic mental patient and the intelligence of the chair you're sitting on.
And I know Mike's about to jump in and go "Wait, but by whose standards are you saying he's bad by hmmmm? Who says how you're supposed to make characters and how far you can go making them? And if people do try to restrict that kind of shit fuck them, and the police for good measure." to which I'll reply "Yeah, sure, if you're making characters. Satoshi's not a character, he's a walking, varied exhibition stand with a bland, robotic voice shared by every other character this guy writes except for Connor, because he has a bad cold."
So no, he's not a mary sue. He's not a character either. He's a process you never finished doing before throwing it out in the open.
So go back to brainstorming and finish that process before showing off the result.
And about the whole don't like don't read, here's a treasure: I don't like it and I won't read it, but it's RPing with us so no matter how cancerous the brainstorm is and how much I want to avoid him like the plague, he's still there if I want to be in Cross Effects. Him, and all the other characters from the "Same-voice bland alternate universe" he comes from.
And now you know how I feel.
*What
**This makes no sense
***Whips are about the worst thing for defending, why would you do this
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I protest the bit about whips. Someone's apparently never played Castlevania.
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That is your opinion names, having said that, that is all I plan to acknowledge
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It isn't an opinion when it's a fact Lantz.
Also it's a whip sword, not a whip. So basically it's a weapon that you are more likely to decapitate yourself with than even harm your enemy... if you can even get enough speed and power with a blade flopping around being heavy and not whiplike at all.
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Your opinion is an opinion arch, it is not truth, you know nothing about my work or my characters. Any one who uses Cancerous as a descriptor is wrong from the outset in my opinion.
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No, not really. Whipswords are fucking awful weapons. That's a fact.
For that matter, I actually know how blades fucking work. I actually research my shit, and I can tell you right off that a whip sword is not a very effective weapon for killing people. Or for fighting in general. It can't really defend, not without you entering into a freaking lengthy flurry of blows. And then all it takes is one guy willing to get a rather nasty long wound and your entire defense is interrupted and you're dead meat. Or someone smart puts a long stick in the way and the same thing happens. This long stick is known as a spear. It is the reason why whip swords don't work. They can't stab, they can't really slash, and the second that someone gets in their way, they're useless. Are they fucking awesome looking? Yes. Are they pretty much a giant 'KILL ME I AM STUPID' sign? Yes.
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I could just have easily used the term unfinished, unpolished, unedited, untought, unhinged from good writing or shitty instead of cancerous, and the entirety of the post would not have been more or less wrong for it
as it stands you just filled a bucket with the equivalent of five toasters and called it a fully functional toaster
hint: it's not a fucking toaster, just like your mess isn't a character
A character is a well-rounded ball, Satoshi is a fucking katamari damaci with skyscrapers sticking out unevenly
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Satoshi is complete Names, I did quite a bit of research. Not that it matters because you've chosen to be disrespectful and believe whatever you choose regardless.
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Apparently you didn't do any research on PTSD.
And Satoshi is only complete in the way that a retarded child's macaroni picture is done - because all the macaroni is gone, and there's no more glue left.
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Did quite a bit of research, he says
fapping to the saber sex scenes while writing down "tips on good writing" ain't research
it's fapping
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Take your hate speech else where arch.
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Take your hate speech else where arch.
It's called an analogy, something you seem to not use.
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A racist one at best, now go away arch
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>Racist
This word. You do not seem to know what it means.
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Derogatory, disrespectful, rude, dickish...
But not racist. Unless you actually do mean racist, which means you think one kind of ethnicity is all retarded.
In which case shame on you, you naughty, naughty boy.
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Actually intellect is one of the categories racism falls under arch are your analogy firmly paints a stereotypical view of the disabled and is thus discriminatory and racist. So hit the road.
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Erm, no, racism refers specifically to race. What he said is discriminatory, yes, but not racist.
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Derogatory, disrespectful, rude, dickish...
But not racist. Unless you actually do mean racist, which means you think one kind of ethnicity is all retarded.
In which case shame on you, you naughty, naughty boy.
Eh, I'd color it as slightly offensive at it's worst. Retarded is a medically accepted term.
Wait a minute, if he thinks that's racist... was he just implying that the mentally disabled are an ethnic group? Because that doesn't make any sense.
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Racism covers several kinds of discriminatory action and such as this against the disabled are in fact considered racist.
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No Arch it's not acceptable.
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When you consider it's an analogy playing to a stereotype, and is not intended or designed to offend, then no. It's not discriminitory. If I said something like, the Irish cannot play basketball, that's discriminatory.
OH FUCK I JUST WAS DISCRIMINATING AGAINST THE IRISH!
Intent matters a great deal. And no, it isn't considered racism as it isn't targeted at an ethnic group, racial background, or cultural community. Pop open a dictionary lantz.
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The acceptable way to refer to any disability is by it's clinical name, which depending on the disorder is socially unacceptable.
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Sorry Arch but you are wrong on both counts. You were offensive so you ought to apologize. And secondly I know full well that it is considered racist, it is legally considered as such and socially unacceptable at best.
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...So basically I can't refer to people who are classified as mentally retarded as mentally retarded? What the fuck Lantz, that logic doesn't fly. Or work at all.
Sorry Arch but you are wrong on both counts. You were offensive so you ought to apologize. And secondly I know full well that it is considered racist, it is legally considered as such and socially unacceptable at best.
No, it really isn't legally considered racist. If what I said was hate speech, then the government would have banned the Black Eyed Peas, and quite a few Zero Punctuation videos for violating the law. And Family Guy, several times.
You see Lantz, I live in a wonderful place known as (http://fi.somethingawful.com/images/smilies/emot-911.gif)AMERICA!(http://fi.somethingawful.com/images/smilies/emot-911.gif) We have this magical thing called the (http://fi.somethingawful.com/images/smilies/emot-911.gif)FIRST AMENDMENT!(http://fi.somethingawful.com/images/smilies/emot-911.gif) It gives me the right to say whatever the fuck I want to say. Within certain limits. And so far, I am totally within these limits.
It's not really hate speech unless certain lines are crossed, and honestly if you get offended at this little thing when people have said far worse in other threads here, then fuck off.
*PS, Alice, Mike, add an :FREEDOM: or :AMERICA: emoticon that's a bald eagle in front of an american flag. Just steal something awful's one.
EDIT: THANK YOU BIASED ALICE
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Racism covers several kinds of discriminatory action and such as this against the disabled are in fact considered racist.
Lantz...it's the other way around.
Racism is one of several types of discrimination, like sexism and ageism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ageism). Racism is specifically for race, hence the name.
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Zero punctuation would be the heaviest loss.
And let me ask them about that.
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*PS, Alice, Mike, add an :FREEDOM: or :AMERICA: emoticon that's a bald eagle in front of an american flag. Just steal something awful's one.
Since when does America have anything to do with freedom? :P
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*PS, Alice, Mike, add an :FREEDOM: or :AMERICA: emoticon that's a bald eagle in front of an american flag. Just steal something awful's one.
Since when does America have anything to do with freedom? :P
Talk to me about freedom when the UK doesn't take away all your guns anymore. And when your prime minister stops banning internet porn.
(http://fi.somethingawful.com/images/smilies/emot-911.gif)AMERICA FUCK YEAH!(http://fi.somethingawful.com/images/smilies/emot-911.gif)
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It's basically 'Murica's calling card. :P And while I don't quite feel comfortable from stealing it from SA and directly adding it to our emoticon bank for some reason, I definitely don't mind linking the emoticon in here for future use. :3
(http://fi.somethingawful.com/images/smilies/emot-911.gif)
'MURICA!
Also.... yeaaaah, I'll reiterate what other people said, that's not how racism works. Discrimination yes, racism, no.
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It's basically 'Murica's calling card. :P And while I don't quite feel comfortable from stealing it from SA and directly adding it to our emoticon bank for some reason, I definitely don't mind linking the emoticon in here for future use. :3
(http://fi.somethingawful.com/images/smilies/emot-911.gif)
'MURICA!
Also.... yeaaaah, I'll reiterate what other people said, that's not how racism works. Discrimination yes, racism, no.
Thanks Alice! Editing my posts now.
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No problem~ :3 I actually have the SA emoticons page bookmarked, because the emoticons page is always available even when the pay-wall is up, so if you want me to link the page ever or something, just let me know. :)
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I was actually educated on this so much as you want to believe you're correct I'm not going to accept it.
in either case it's still disgusting and hateful
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Well you were taught wrong, as any look in a dictionary would show you.
And no it wasn't hateful. For the millionth time. So accept that you're wrong lantz, and that I'm right. Feel that icy burn of defeat and deal with it (http://a.fod4.com/images/GifGuide/DealWithIt/dealwithit.gif).
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No, not really. Whipswords are fucking awful weapons. That's a fact.
You're rude to Ivy, mang.
OH FUCK I JUST WAS DISCRIMINATING AGAINST THE IRISH!
Consider me offended.
It's not really hate speech unless certain lines are crossed, and honestly if you get offended at this little thing when people have said far worse in other threads here, then fuck off.
;_;
You see Lantz, I live in a wonderful place known as (http://fi.somethingawful.com/images/smilies/emot-911.gif)AMERICA!(http://fi.somethingawful.com/images/smilies/emot-911.gif) We have this magical thing called the (http://fi.somethingawful.com/images/smilies/emot-911.gif)FIRST AMENDMENT!(http://fi.somethingawful.com/images/smilies/emot-911.gif) It gives me the right to say whatever the fuck I want to say. Within certain limits. And so far, I am totally within these limits.
ARE FRIEDUM!!!
Since when does America have anything to do with freedom? :P
ARRRRREEE FFFRRRIIIEEEEDDDUUUUMMM!!!
Talk to me about freedom when the UK doesn't take away all your guns anymore. And when your prime minister stops banning internet porn.
(http://fi.somethingawful.com/images/smilies/emot-911.gif)AMERICA FUCK YEAH!(http://fi.somethingawful.com/images/smilies/emot-911.gif)
Health care system, tho.
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I don't believe you Arch, sell it elsewhere.
and dictionary has nothing to do with the legal definition
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*PS, Alice, Mike, add an :FREEDOM: or :AMERICA: emoticon that's a bald eagle in front of an american flag. Just steal something awful's one.
Since when does America have anything to do with freedom? :P
Talk to me about freedom when the UK doesn't take away all your guns anymore. And when your prime minister stops banning internet porn.
(http://fi.somethingawful.com/images/smilies/emot-911.gif)AMERICA FUCK YEAH!(http://fi.somethingawful.com/images/smilies/emot-911.gif)
Yeah, well, go tell all the people in Guantanemo Bay that the US just randomly picked off the streets of Afghanistan and is now desperately claiming are terrorists to save face that the US stands for freedom. Or the random guy who the US picked up, tortured, released when they realised they'd got the wrong guy and then used the argument of "well, it'll compromise secret information" to deny him any right to justice. Or Bradley Manning. Or Edward Snowdon. Or the hundreds of thousands of people locked up in prison for using drugs which harm only theirselves.
And no it wasn't hateful. For the millionth time. So accept that you're wrong lantz, and that I'm right. Feel that icy burn of defeat and deal with it (http://a.fod4.com/images/GifGuide/DealWithIt/dealwithit.gif).
I'm not entirely sure how you have at any point proven that it wasn't hateful....
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Was it intended as an insult against the mentally handicapped?
No, it wasn't. Therefore, it isn't an insult against the mentally handicapped.
I don't believe you Arch, sell it elsewhere.
and dictionary has nothing to do with the legal definition
And there isn't a legal definition of racism, because it isn't a legal term.
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The UN does not define "racism"; however, it does define "racial discrimination": According to the United Nations Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination,
the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.
http://www.hri.org/docs/ICERD66.html (http://www.hri.org/docs/ICERD66.html)
The UN's definition apparently.
Similarly, in British law the phrase racial group means "any group of people who are defined by reference to their race, colour, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origin."
http://www.cps.gov.uk/publications/prosecution/rrpbcrbook.html (http://www.cps.gov.uk/publications/prosecution/rrpbcrbook.html)
And that used by British law. These are the closest to legal definitions I can find based off a quick search. Neither of these mention the mentally handicapped as a group covered within that definition.
Are the mentally handicapped discriminated against? Oh yes. But it's not racism. It's actually called mentalism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mentalism_(discrimination) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mentalism_%28discrimination%29)
The power of research! :D
Also, to be fair, even if it wasn't intended as an insult against the mentally handicapped, it can still potentially be seen as offensive. To use a field I'm more experienced with, a lot of sexism is unconscious or unwitting, for instance. Considering how lanz overreacts to everything though, and takes the slightest insignificant insult as a personal attack of the highest order, I can't blame you for questioning it.
That said, I think "retarded" is at least considered mildly offensive, at least in certain circles, though I think the level of offensiveness is somewhat determined by the circle you're talking to and even the nation of the person the term is being used around.
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Yes now it has a specific definition, it didn't before, not legally.
and frankly it's the pot and kettle here
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Yes now it has a specific definition, it didn't before, not legally.
and frankly it's the pot and kettle here
Except Mentalism isn't a legal term either, and this whole situation is more like a pot calling a Jew a Nazi.
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Actually no pot calling kettle black is an effective comparison to Lantz, because he keeps crying about us telling him Satoshi a shit is a fact and telling us to stahp, while in the gundam/final fantasy threads he declares that what other people like is factually bad and keeps harping on about it until we have users disappear because of how much of a jerk he is, despite an admin telling him to stop telling people what to and not to like in one of those threads, repeatedly, and him ignoring it.
AND YES THERE IS A DIFFERENCE LANTZ
Final Fantasy 13, for example, while being fairly bad in every way, isn't RPing with us as a whole with all of the spectacularly bad aspects only, so clearly the idea there is of "Well I don't like it, but seeing as the fact you do doesn't affect me, have fun with it AS YOU ARE ALREADY" is the right to take, instead of "This is bad it's a fact fact fact fact where are you going? That was definitely not my fault."
Satoshi is bad and does actually negatively affect us through the RP, so of course we're going to repeatedly tell you how bad he is because as said, we are affected by it, unlike with the fact someone out there is enjoying FF13. We can't let it be because unlike you, we don't worship the turd in the corner of the room and bring it to our friend's house on a DnD sheet to play as, we throw it out and hope it hits some squirrels, and if we see a guy coming in with a turd on a DnD sheet, we either immediately aim at squirrels or continuously harp on about it until either you take a hint and actually finish making him/balancing him, you just stop playing him, you leave or the GM starts doing something about it, because while the GM wants a smooth game with no trouble, she also should take offense to someone coming to her game table with a pile of shit.
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Maybe Satoshi is actually lantz self-inserting????
so is all his writing really wish fufillment????
shrug.jpg
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No Zidan, I only ever self insert for the purposes of humor, lampooning is fantastic
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ahh ok
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Maybe Satoshi is actually lantz self-inserting????
so is all his writing really wish fufillment????
shrug.jpg
It really is sort of wishfullfilment writing, and it comes off as it. Lantz self inserting is something I'm nearly 100% sure of, and I feel it's a bit of an issue with him.
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Satoshi sporadically remembers that he's supposed to have character specific traits like OCD though, making him not Lantz.
But how sporadic it is and rarely and situationally the OCD crops up is questionable by itself. OCD is a constant thing to the person who has it, yet it seems to turn off and on with this guy. This is less the character's problem and more the writer's.
The consistency is a bit lacking, Lantz. Either this character has a condition or doesn't, don't try to go halfway. The only thing you'll do is alienate people who have the condition/people who know how it works.
Honestly this post isn't even out to discredit your character or make you mad, just to point out something that is a genuine flaw in the way he's written.
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I've never done Self-Insert besides maybe insert a few character tics of myself when I write Shirou since he's basically F/sn si in the vn no matter how badly that works out
I have ADHD and probably will never grow out of it, and its particular symptoms for me are something I can easily portray if I were to do so. Can't keep my mind focused on something unless it interests me to the point of intense fascination, have multiple thought processes going on away from my main focus that can be distracting to the point I forget what I was doing or be used to think of multiple scenarios at the same time.
To list additionals:
I can be easily distracted, miss details, forget things, and frequently switch from one activity to another
I have to be constantly in motion, even little things like squirming my toes, I can't stay still at all
I can blurt out inappropriate comments, show emotions without restraint, and act without regard for consequences which can lead me into trouble
I have difficulty waiting for things I want and often interrupt conversations or others' activities.
It sucks having ADHD
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You aren't paying attention names. In the RP Satoshi was constantly building as his OCD compels him to do. It was only after leaving the castle that he stopped constantly fulfilling that need. In addition OCD is not something that is of one specific strength for everyone, if that were the case everyone with an Obsessive compulsive disorder would be unable to do anything but fix whatever it is that bothers them.
Satoshi is not sporadic in his disorder it simply comes in waves rather than being a hammer. It builds slowly until it becomes unavoidable.
Satoshi is not a self insert. The only self inserts I do are for humor and are blatantly named Lantz and are used to poke fun at things or establish meta premises.
heroes in general are wish fulfillment period. Lifes bites the big one, terrible people and things are rampant in the real world, heroes are supposed to be the guys that step above that and uphold the basic goodness that people are supposed to have to begin with.
the best of humanity, the ones who fight for the betterment of people. That's the extent of wish fulfillment in my writing. I wish for people to be the best they can.
and fyi names I never berated them for liking the game or the gundam series of their choice. I was simply stating my opinion and explaining it. I said before anyone can like what they want, I would never say otherwise. I just don't lie about what I see in a particular work. Gundam 00 sucks and the gundam franchises are basically incompatible due to ideals and histories. Like 00 if you like, ff13 is the same, like it, just don't try to make me like it. My opinions may be set and immovable, even a little clinical at times but they are not berating or angry.
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Still waiting on that update. Wow, for a story you've already typed out, you seem to take a long time in posting it.
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I never said that
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You have said several times -
"It's all written out already"
"I don't edit anything after it's written"
and so on and so forth.
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Not quite, I said it's finished, it's something different than written out. I stated quite a number of times that technical errors have forced me to retype things (not to mention the format change added recently which changes chapter one into chapter fifteen) and further given your obviously malicious interest in the project I fail to see the point in hurrying on your account.
I have a real life beyond the internet, I can't spend everyday writing and even if I could I can't neglect my other subjects beyond fan fiction. Deal with it or don't, either way you'll have to wait.
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"I don't edit anything after it's written"
Editing and proofreading before publishing is one of things that every writer must do, so failing to do that means one is not giving a damn about writing, indeed.
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Well, he does certainly send it for beta-reading at least. The version that he posts on the forum is after that point, though.
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X you are, like Arch, ignoring the context and meaning of my statement. It does not refer to basic editing, it refers to altering the plot, intent, theme and purpose of the work. I will not edit or alter those, beta reading and proofreading I always do however.
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If the concept of a story is bad, no matter how good the writing is, it will be considered a bad story. Basic grammar helps but your formatting needs serious work.
Of Swords and Sorcery is one of those concepts that should have been strangled in its crib. It relies on too many deus ex machina's right from the get go (a trio of them), has a very horrid main character who seems to be unable to actually express emotion at all or understand the emotions of others, and the traits that he supposedly has never pop up when in reality they should. When a story from the get go is this crippled, it'd take a masterful author to raise it from "Needs to be deleted" to "Passable" and frankly Lantz, you are no where close to being a masterful author.
On the subject of theme, I can't see a single one in "Of Swords of Sorcery," aside from 'You should like Satoshi he is awesome guys,' which is also the intent apparently. When you write fanfiction centered around an OC, there's always this risk of something along these lines but this can be avoided by making the OC fit the universe and an actually likable character. Satoshi is neither of these two things, and in fact seems to be designed to do neither of those things. Satoshi is the main problem with 'Of Swords and Sorcery' and is the main reason the story doesn't work. If he was made less unbelieveable and less Gary Stu OC Donutsteel, he could work, but it'd involve some serious reworking of the character from the ground up.
By refusing to actually change anything about your story or characters you are committing the equivalent to taking a shotgun, blowing off both your feet, and kneecapping yourself, before blowing off a hand and then using the other hand to hack that arm off with a buzzsaw, then chaining yourself to a cinderblock and throwing yourself off a bridge into deep water. This is where your story could have seriously used outside feedback (though considering how stubborn you are I doubt you'd have actually even listened.) At this point, I'm questioning why I'm even bothering to point this all out.
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While I feel Arch-Magos is a bit harsh, I can't disagree with his core point.
Swords and Sorcery would work better if both Satoshi and the plot had gotten some reworking from the ground up. While not extreme amounts of revision, the changes would be fundamental.
Hell, I've rewritten the basic outline of my own story from the ground up four times now based on input from others and I'm happier with the results so far.
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Arch is simple ignorant and arrogant. He is free to have his opinion, and I am free to ignore it. Simply put I don't care what he thinks because as far as I am concerned he is wrong.
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Arrogance can go both ways, lantz. And disagreeing with an opinion is fine. Ignoring objective points because as far as you're concerned a certain person is always wrong for not sharing your view of things... is not, I'd say.
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OK, as per Lantz's request (via Skype), I'm locking the thread.
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Locked? Really, Lantz is going out of his way to avoid getting any sort of constructive criticism.
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Arch, the fact that we managed to fail at locking the thread due to doing it simultaneously doesn't mean we're OK with you posting in it. If someone says "thread locked", that kind-of means "don't post", even if you find that you somehow can.