Dark Side of the Moon
Type Moon => Fanfiction => Lantz's fics => Topic started by: lantzblades on July 17, 2013, 06:47:35 PM
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Tsukumihara diaries is a fiction based around the one world concept and development of the characters through short stories. The basic premise is that all of the Tsukihime, fate stay night and fate extra (as well as the expanded universe of fan and original characters) are present in a single world and further in the same city, the characters remain the same for the most part save that because characters like Shiki and shirougo to the same school they would be aware of each other. Adult stuff can occur in the story but the major three three rules are as follows.
1) characters cannot be majorly represented by their relationship with their partner
2) before a character can be romantically involved with others a minimum amount of time in the story needs to pass
3) while the intention is that you the readers have input on story development and while I'm notsuch a hopeless romantic as to think every relationship ends happily if two characters get together in a relationship please avoid suggesting their break up for no reason, and no, because I don't like it is not a reason.
finally I'll answer any questions and remember to have fun with this, I know nasu and fen write downers but I'd prefer the story be more bright UPS then terrible downs.
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So, what's the intention here? You've not really made that clear in the post.
Also, what do you mean by the first condition?
Oh, and what situations are the characters in relative to canon? Sakura and Ilya, for example....
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The intent is to develop a new continuity with the collected characters and create a storyline which involves those interested in participating in the story's evolution and direction.
as for the first part I mean character X is dating Y is not a valid way to define or develop the character, there has to be more than that to the characters.
as for the situation relative to canon that is something to discuss given the numerous differences in the major environment
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The intent is to develop a new continuity with the collected characters and create a storyline which involves those interested in participating in the story's evolution and direction.
Ah, OK.
Well, we need somewhere to start, really....
I'm definitely interested in the idea.
as for the first part I mean character X is dating Y is not a valid way to define or develop the character, there has to be more than that to the characters.
Well, I can't see how that would ever happen, honestly....
as for the situation relative to canon that is something to discuss given the numerous differences in the major environment
Yeah. Ilya and Sakura are probably the ones that need sorting out the most. Ilya in particular is hard to fit into this setting based on canon. Sakura is easier to leave as-is, but her situation needs to be resolved at some point.
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In regards to ilya, how so
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In regards to ilya, how so
Well, in canon she lives in the Einsbern Castle in Germany, and is very carefully kept away from Kiritsugu and Shirou....
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They have one in fuyuki, similarly the same could be true here
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They have one in fuyuki, similarly the same could be true here
Well, yeah, sure, but part of the point was to keep her away from Shirou and Kiritsugu....
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That doesn't mean anything in regards to fates timeline
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That doesn't mean anything in regards to fates timeline
What do you mean?
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The events leading up to the fifth war need not change
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The events leading up to the fifth war need not change
If she knows Shirou before the War it would change a lot....
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I would think that would depend on kiritsugu living or not
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Even if not, Ilya knowing Shirou is quite a big thing, given how much she tries to kill him in canon.
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I'm not sure what you mean
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In canon, Ilya trying to kill Shirou is a big part of the story. If she knows him before the war, that won't happen.
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How would she know him?
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Well, they would live in the same town, and presumably go to the same school. I would imagine she would actively seek him out, even if only to brutally murder him....
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Well I didn't mean that all the characters live in the same city from birth
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Hmm, so you're saying Ilya would live in Germany until the war?
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She did in canon
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Yeah, but I thought the idea here was for everyone to be in the same school....
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Yeah, I thought that as well, for some reason.
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Yes, from the point of the novels' start point not before
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Well, OK.
So, what do we need to discuss?
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Firstly how the novels sync within the fictional town.
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What do you mean?
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Same villains and events would take place as in canon
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Well, OK, but don't we need to decide which route it would follow? Or am I misunderstanding you here?
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I think the routes are disregarded for this idea... right?
Just making perfectly sure.
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The routes are completely moot as the events, which the grail war and the vampire hunt slash tohno mystery are happening at the same time in the same city
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Right. Just needed to make sure for Cherry.
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Well, then, I'm not sure what you were trying to say, then....
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Given that the events will occur at the same time in the same city the characters can and will most likely meet, fight etcetera.
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Wait, so the events of Tsuki happen at the same time as the events of FSN?
Interesting....
So, I guess what you're saying is that we need to work out how they mesh, right?
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Nasu confirmed that they do happen at the same time as one another. And yes how they mesh or cross over is what I'm saying we need to figure out
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Hmm, OK.
Well, that's a bit difficult for me because I don't know Tsuki that well, so some help would be useful there....
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I can deal with that half of things
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Well, yeah, that figures, but you're probably going to have to get us going in terms of meshing the two in that case....
Also, how is this story supposed to be written? Is it you writing it with our input, or is it more collaborative?
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Each story would be produced independently after the first one to establish the baseline
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Ah, OK.
So, what would the first story entail?
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An update and remix of the events in the novels
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Ah, OK, so you mean the Grail War plus something covering the events of Tsukihime?
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Yes that's right
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Well, OK, then I guess we need to plan out the first story.
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More so we need to figure out the character path for shirou we want him to follow.
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What do you mean by "character path"?
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I think lantz means which route it'll go under.
For instance, Heaven's Feel, which may as well be utterly rewritten to account for better writing and to give Sakura (and Ilya) better chances of being with Shirou (I mean, seriously, do you even know how wrong it is to Ilya fans that she gets the short end of the stick 2/3 of the time?! Not saying I'm more Ilya fan than Sakura fan, to me they're equal in who I like, but I just needed to point out that issue with canon a lot of people have).
Oh, and set a tone that allows for consistency, like how HF Normal is consistent with the rest of the route but not HF True (I think the issue most people have with it is that it's not bitter enough while staying sweet... and that it's too sweet for the rest of the route).
Just what I think lantz means.
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Well, I can't imagine that Ilya will get to be romantically involved with Shirou, since both I and Lantz would find that idea rather disturbing. However, I would expect her to be involved, yes, and I doubt she'll be killed off. I wouldn't want that, and I'm pretty sure Lantz wouldn't.
Also, Sakura gets the short end of the stick 2/3rds of the time, and even Saber doesn't get to survive aside from in UBW Good. Ilya is by no means alone in that respect....
Also, HF Normal is not more consistent with the tone of HF than HF True is. HF is about Shirou protecting Sakura no matter what and earning a happy ending for her, and HF True fits that better. Why the hell should Sakura having a sad backstory and crap stuff happen to her in her route mean she should have to get a sad ending?
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*ahem* Let me re-iterate.
I was talking about that last point as from Shirou's perspective. I mean, in the whole route of HF, he is slowly killing himself one way or another. The whole thing about the route was not just his devotion to Sakura, it's also about his losing more of what made him... him. If you recall, he can barely speak to Ilya in HF True, and his motor functions are shot completely to Hell in that ending from his perspective... of course, he gets a Deus ex Machina to make him normal again, but that's by the epilogue.
Anyway, about the route's theme, from what I understand, it was mainly about suffering to let those you love stay safe, which is why it was supposed to be bittersweet for all the route. Shirou suffers more than he has to just to keep Sakura safe, which is expounded (is that the right word?) upon in HF Normal with him Excaliblasting the Greater Grail, which results in him dying after saving Sakura and, by extension, the world.
Keep in mind, though, most of my input here is second-hand. The others that have played the route would have more to say on the subject.
EDIT: No, I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, just stating an opinion of what I think the route's theme is.
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By character path I mean which presented shirou do we want him to emulate fate, ubw or hf
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I vote option 4) All of the Above.
...what? Is it wrong to give Shirou all three of the canonical girls that are in the game?
Oh, if you were talking about personality, I think the All of the Above comment would still make sense. He needs to be a mixture of all three presented routes for this to work better.
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I think they are mutually exclusive xams
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*raises eyebrow* Oh, really? In what ways are they mutually exclusive, lantz?
As far as thinking goes, by the way, I think you need to look at your profile page. I left you a message there that I'd like you to read and give an answer to (note that I'm not telling you to do anything... just pointing out the reason why you need to look at your profile page).
Er, to get back on track, I was more referring to the personality of Shirou as seen in each route being merged together to make the Shirou we'd use in this story.
EDIT: Actually, as far as the first and third parts of the post, please disregard them. I spoke with KAIZA over Skype about this just to find out that UBW would be more of the middle ground in personality.
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Each shirou has differences xams, from fighting style to look out on life and magic, tossing them into a blender won't work it'll just wind up with something unpalatable for all involved.
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Anyway, about the route's theme, from what I understand, it was mainly about suffering to let those you love stay safe, which is why it was supposed to be bittersweet for all the route. Shirou suffers more than he has to just to keep Sakura safe, which is expounded (is that the right word?) upon in HF Normal with him Excaliblasting the Greater Grail, which results in him dying after saving Sakura and, by extension, the world.
No, it's about suffering to protect Sakura. If she ends up permanently depressed, then the entire thing was a waste of time.
Each shirou has differences xams, from fighting style to look out on life and magic, tossing them into a blender won't work it'll just wind up with something unpalatable for all involved.
Do you mean in terms of the girl he's paired with? If so, then HF would be far preferable for me. And, even if not, I definitely want Sakura to get saved.
In terms of the actual character development and personality, it's less clear. I think HF probably makes the most long-term sense, particularly for a story which intends to continue with all the characters in one place, since it means Shirou won't go running off around the world fighting things.
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Look, I'm not trying to argue the point I was trying to make, I was just stating an opinion. We're all allowed an opinion as part of a universal right for freedom of speech.
It may be about protecting Sakura, but people tend to believe that the tone should have been less... happy, as it were. Of course, this is comparing HF True End to Normal End, because Sakura doesn't exactly get the happy ending that we know she deserves for what she put up with in Normal End. If I recall correctly, Sakura waits in Shirou's home for him to return, even 60 years after he died in the Grail War just to shut it down.
Of course, like I said before, not trying to argue my point here. Just stating an opinion.
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Look, I'm not trying to argue the point I was trying to make, I was just stating an opinion. We're all allowed an opinion as part of a universal right for freedom of speech.
Sure, but the flip side of that is that we're all allowed to disagree with said opinions....
It may be about protecting Sakura, but people tend to believe that the tone should have been less... happy, as it were.
Again, I don't get why Sakura suffering her entire life should mean she has to continue to suffer in order to "maintain the tone of the route". That is just plain ridiculous.
Of course, this is comparing HF True End to Normal End, because Sakura doesn't exactly get the happy ending that we know she deserves for what she put up with in Normal End. If I recall correctly, Sakura waits in Shirou's home for him to return, even 60 years after he died in the Grail War just to shut it down.
Yeah, HF Normal is downright depressing.
The thing with HF is that there isn't really a middle ground. Sakura needs Rin and Shirou there to help her recover from her past and from what happened in the route. Without them, she's never going to live anything remotely resembling the happy life she deserves.
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Just in the case of personality, and to be frank hf shirou is a bit too selfish imo to be the attitude we use for a series hero.
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I don't think he is at all, particularly given that we do not, presumably, want him running off halfway through the story. HF Shirou is not "selfish", really, he's just more normal. He puts his family and friends above random strangers, but he still cares about both more than himself.
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But that is not a superhero, not a hero of justice. It defies who the character started as and wants to become, it would make him comparatively selfish and really being the lesser of the two male leads when the other guy is a psychological train wreck is not a good position for shirou.
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I don't see how wanting to protect Sakura makes him "lesser". He's still a fundamentally good guy.
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Being selfish makes him lesser and yes a hero who chooses one over the many is selfish
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Refusing to murder innocent people in cold blood is not "selfish".
But, fine, I don't particularly mind it not being HF Shirou as long as that doesn't imply Sakura gets ignored or worse....
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Don't apply context of hf, a hero who chooses the one over the many is selfish. Heroes are better off detached
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Not really.
How many heroes do you know who don't have people they love more than others? Superman does, Spiderman does. It's just normal, because it makes them actual people.
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They however do not protect those People first and foremost above the innocent masses
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That would be discounting the whole Brand New Day thing for Spiderman (which I think you guys would not care for).
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They however do not protect those People first and foremost above the innocent masses
That's not true at all. Do you not remember Superman going to the point of reversing time to bring Lois Lane back in the first film?
They might protect everyone, but they do tend to put their loved ones first.
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OK, well, shouldn't we get back to discussing the actual idea...?
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I think the lack of unified out look on heroes might make the setup be shaky here
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Why?
It's not like we need to agree exactly on how a hero should act to write a story. Shirou is not perfect, and nor is anyone else....
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When said hero is the main character I think we do, as for Shirou I really think ubw as a guide line works best, not too naive and not a extremely focused obsessive.
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For this purpose that probably does make sense, yes, although it shouldn't imply the pairing, or that Sakura gets her UBW fate....
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Your opinion of her fate there you mean and no it should be rather obvious I'm not a ShirouXRin fan so that pairing is very unlikely.
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Your opinion of her fate there you mean
Her fate in UBW is left unresolved. She might get saved later, but the story neither saves her nor does anything to increase her chances of being saved at a later date.
and no it should be rather obvious I'm not a ShirouXRin fan so that pairing is very unlikely.
Yeah, that makes sense.
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First up, Are Shirou and Shiki friends?
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Well, it's hard for me to answer that, since I don't know much about Shiki. How would it affect things if they were?
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If they are friends I imagine that they would team up much sooner into the work thus changing events much more than they would if not so
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Hmm, well, having them be friends could lead to interesting stuff with regards to Sakura, since Shiki would presumably be able to notice the worms. Also, he can most likely kill Zouken without killing her. That would give us a way to save Sakura and introduce her into the story more without having to go down the HF route and make everything darker.
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Shiki can kill the universe so zouken is comparatively a bitch.
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Well, it's not so much whether he can kill Zouken as whether he can kill Zouken without harming Sakura....
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He just has to cut Zouken's line and not Sakura's
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He just has to cut Zouken's line and not Sakura's
Well, he'd probably need to stab the dot but, yeah.
The issue is whether stabbing a dot inside Sakura's heart will harm Sakura, even if it's not her dot.
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As long as it doesn't connect to her dots or lines it's fine. Ryougi killed an appendix infection or something in the movie without hurting the girl
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Ah, OK, then that could be a good way of changing things so Sakura can play more of a role without needing to go through HF. Once Shirou finds out the truth, Shiki can deal with Zouken nice and quickly, and then she can be involved without going through all the mess of HF.
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Avoiding HF like conditions where there are little pockets of sense scattered throughout a minefield of stupid is always good I think.
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Well, I don't dislike HF, but I'm quite OK with avoiding that path as long as Sakura is saved otherwise, and isn't ignored in general. I'm not overly fond of grimdark stuff in general.
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I just dislike the lack of logic and communication present in the route.
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Sure. It doesn't matter anyway since we have no need to go down that path (although that certainly does not mean Sakura should be left out).
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Depends on her servant and other details
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Well, if Zouken is gone there is much less reason for her to be left out, and I would certainly not be pleased to see that happen.