of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.

[Cherry Lover]

Apart from this group and presumably archer and rin is there any other characters we need to deal with?

Not obviously, no. Ilya, I guess, but only in a non-porn fashion.

There would also be a couple of other masters (plus Kotomine/Gil), but I think the combination of Toshi, Rider and Caster could take them down pretty easily, and there's no obvious reason for them to be involved in the porn.

Also, I edited in some more details about the Sakura sex to my last post. The general progression of their sex scenes would be something that would be interesting to work out, as would be the sex between Rider, Caster and Toshi.

I actually do wonder if it might be a good idea to have Toshi and Rider dom Caster, to "punish" her for what she intended to do to Sakura and Rider (obviously with her consent). It's rare for Caster to be the sub and not the dom in scenes, so that would be an interesting change.

[lantzblades]

I read it, no real objections  as for punishment for caster, no, I have another idea for them

[Cherry Lover]

I read it, no real objections

Ok, good.

as for punishment for caster, no, I have another idea for them

Oh? What's that?

Also, remember, you can have more than one scene....

[lantzblades]

He pulls an emiyaand charms rider and caster and they take up the guest house as a place to live which is mostly used for sex

[Cherry Lover]

He pulls an emiyaand charms rider and caster and they take up the guest house as a place to live which is mostly used for sex

Ah, OK.

Well, can't they "punish" Caster as part of that? It's not like the punishment won't be enjoyable....

Anyway, I have an idea for a possible setting. It's a universe in which slavery is widespread. In particular, traditionally women have been seen and treated as slaves (although there are also male slaves around). Much of the world has given women the ability to be free, and some of the more enlightened parts have abolished slavery entirely, but in Japan all women are still slaves and cannot be given freedom (except for foreign visitors, who are given a special exemption).

Sakura and Rin are Shirou's slaves, having been taken as "spoils of war" by Kiritsugu, possibly along with their mother, after the fourth Grail War. However, since Shirou isn't a dick, he treats them kindly, and also refrained from having sex with them until they were old enough. As a result, as of the Grail War he's had Rin as a trained sex slave for about a year, and is in the process of training Sakura. Despite being slaves, the two girls are quite assertive (Rin in particular is prone to "topping from the bottom") and generally much like in canon (Sakura is actually more assertive than in canon because she's not been abused by Zouken for eleven years), and Shirou is OK with this because, as I said, he's not a dick, and he also cares deeply about the two girls, who have grown up alongside him from the age of 6 or so (they've always been his slaves, but he's never been mean or abusive towards them). He is, however, still clearly the dominant one in their relationship, and there is quite a lot of BDSM involved (although not always). However, they are also somewhat prone to making rash decisions and mistakes, and thus he does expect them to obey orders when it really matters, and not to do stupid things, and if they do so they will be punished for it.

I'm not sure how Shirou got hold of the girls, exactly, but Rin would still have the Tohsaka magic crest, and both sisters would be training in magic. The idea, at least nominally, would be for their first-born son to obtain the Tohsaka crest to continue the family line. Shirou is OK with his role in things (because Sakura and Rin are happy, and Sakura is if anything jealous of her big sister for getting to fuck Shirou earlier), but is a bit unhappy about the system more generally, because not everyone is going to be so nice to their slaves.

Just when he was about to start training Sakura, the three of them receive their command spells for the Grail War. Shirou knows he has to win the war, because failure to do so will mean Sakura and Rin will be taken as spoils by the victor, and likely treated much less kindly. So, he is a little harsher with Sakura's training than he otherwise would be, in order that she will be safe during the War, and not allow herself to be captured. The house would be mostly normal, but would have a built-in dungeon area for him to use to punish the girls if necessary, or even just for playing sex games (which the girls are quite OK with).

In particular, I'd have Shinji or Zouken summon Rider, with Shinji intending to take the Tohsaka sisters as his own slaves. Sakura would get drawn into a trap of some kind (by going out without her servant) after Shirou told her not to, and would be held hostage by Shinji with Shirou being told to surrender his command spells or she dies. Fortunately, she's able to be rescued, and Shirou manages to obtain Rider somehow. However, Shirou is very annoyed with her (because of the danger she put them all in) and she's annoyed at herself. So, he enlists Rider's help in punishing her harshly for her screw-up.

I've not fully worked out the world yet, but I suspect the Grail War would have more servants. I'm also not sure what would happen with Ilya, since bringing her to Japan in this timeline wouldn't be particularly wise, and she also makes Shirou too powerful. For other masters, I'm thinking that Luvia would be one, with her goal being to capture the Tohsaka sisters (her family wants to enslave and torture them, and they have a dungeon ready and waiting), and Bazett would also be one. Both of them would be from countries where women aren't necessarily slaves, and indeed would probably own slaves theirselves. I'd imagine Gil/Kotomine would also be around, with the general intention of causing misery etc. I also considered the option of making the Grail non-corrupted, although that does change a hell of a lot.

I'd also have the Tohno family involved. In this timeline, Shiki would be the family head, and Akiha would legally be his slave. However, Makihisa would have set it up so that she actually has a hell of a lot of influence over him, and is essentially in control. Kohaku and Hisui would just be Shiki's slaves, although he wouldn't be nasty to them. They're also fighting for the Grail, but they're quite happy to take on more slaves if necessary.

[lantzblades]

Anyway, I have an idea for a possible setting.

the setting needs to be heavily revised, the thing is that unless it's changed into a more generally civil setting the characters no matter how civil will be different at their core

[Cherry Lover]

Anyway, I have an idea for a possible setting.

the setting needs to be heavily revised, the thing is that unless it's changed into a more generally civil setting the characters no matter how civil will be different at their core

What do you mean by a "more generally civil setting"? I don't see how to achieve that and still keep any of the basic concept. Shirou sure as hell isn't the type of person to take girls as slaves normally, regardless of how kind he is to them.

[lantzblades]

servants are even indentured far more civil than slaves, further more fitting with the magi and groups like the Tohno, secondly it makes the grail war that this more reasonably believable and finally Shirou more likely to accept such a consequence of the war. however this also means that logically only a master should be able to summon a servant which makes your set up a bit impractical.

[Cherry Lover]

servants are even indentured far more civil than slaves, further more fitting with the magi and groups like the Tohno, secondly it makes the grail war that this more reasonably believable and finally Shirou more likely to accept such a consequence of the war.

The thing is, though, the whole point is that Shirou should be worried about what will happen to the girls if they lose, hence his desire to ensure they don't do anything stupid. Also, another part of the point is that he could rape them if he wanted to, but he chooses not to do so because he is a nice person. Having them have too many rights means it's basically just a normal relationship only with them living with him.

however this also means that logically only a master should be able to summon a servant which makes your set up a bit impractical.

Yeah, that does pretty much destroy it, because Shirou needs a reason to train and punish Sakura....

[lantzblades]

i'm just thinking about the sense the set makes and what the characters would be like.

trying to create a setting with only one element often leads to over looking things, i'm sorry if it seems like it's not what you're aiming for but if it were shirou would frankly be a bastard or more logically they'd live in canada and not be involved in the grail wars.

[Cherry Lover]

Well, then can you suggest how you see it working, and we'll see if it can actually work out. Because at the moment it just seems like a pointless setting....

[lantzblades]

well if you want slaves you have to justify it without bastardizing the world or the characters. rather then participating in the trade kiritsugu could be a people who fights against the trade like those in ww2 hiding or help the jewish peoples escape.

[Cherry Lover]

well if you want slaves you have to justify it without bastardizing the world or the characters. rather then participating in the trade kiritsugu could be a people who fights against the trade like those in ww2 hiding or help the jewish peoples escape.

Yes, the problem is that the idea is to have Sakura and Rin as slaves to Shirou, and if he's fighting slavery that doesn't work.

Your idea isn't necessarily bad, as such, but I don't see how it leads to any of the main characters being slaves without it being very dark.

[lantzblades]

you ought to post you revised idea as such here.

[Cherry Lover]

Hmm, OK, so, the idea would be that Kiritsugu had been an anti-slave-trade fighter, who entered the Grail War in order to end the slave trade. He would survive, probably having defeated Tokiomi, but the war would be inconclusive. Tokiomi's two daughters would be orphans and, thus, likely to be enslaved, so he would take them as "spoils of war" and give them to Shirou as slaves, before retiring much like in canon, disillusioned.

He wouldn't explicitly instruct Shirou on how to treat them (although if Shirou went too far he'd step in), relying on Shirou's own conscience to realise "hey, these girls are people too" and develop the obvious conclusion from that, although he would probably mention his ideal to Shirou. Shirou would, of course, grow very fond of his slaves (and would always treat them kindly and generally as equals), although their education would be such that both he and the girls would grow up with the idea of them being sexual slaves to him when they're old enough firmly implanted in their minds, and his kindness and their general beauty and niceness would ensure that both he and the girls would be quite happy with this state of affairs. Indeed, most people would be surprised he was waiting until they were adults. The girls would also continue to learn magic to some extent, since Kiritsugu knows they might one day need to fight, but not to the level Rin does in canon.

Eventually, as they reach adulthood, the girls would ask to be "trained" as his sex slaves (having basically looked forward to it since they first started learning about their "place" in school) and, when he felt they were old enough, he would agree, with Rin starting a year before the Grail War. However, as Sakura's time for training comes up, Shirou would find out about the Grail War that was coming up, and the danger it would pose to all of them. But, at the same time, he knows he can't just ignore the opportunity to protect lives and free people from enslavement. So, he decides to participate. Despite his best efforts, the girls insist on also being involved, and he reluctantly aqrees, on the condition that they obey his orders (mainly so he can ensure their safety), with harsh punishments if they fail to do so, and also agree to some extra "training" for the purpose of preparing them for the Grail War (which would involve training in fighting with sex as a reward for success or other sexual activities as punishments for failure), along with Sakura doing the sexual training she'd been asking for.

Then, it goes as I said before, with Sakura screwing up, nearly getting captured and getting harshly punished (in a sexual manner) by Shirou and Rider (although Shirou would comfort her afterwards).