Here's the thing - by the time the CG's are called in the situation has reached the point where wholesale slaughter is the best option because otherwise humanity is fucked. By interfering with the CG's he's basically painting himself to Alaya as a threat to humanity.
I don't think that's actually quite true. Counter Guardians are a blunt instrument, they can't do anything
but wholesale slaughter. Them being summoned doesn't mean that wholesale slaughter is the only or best option, just that there is an imminent threat which can't be dealt with by normal people.
Have you ever seen the Terminator? Or read fiction about hivemind armies? Units working in perfect tandem with each other are fucking scary opponents because they work together perfectly without error or hesitation. They're willing to sacrifice themselves for a fleeting advantage to allow another to land the fatal blow. It's why they AREN'T useless. It's why Human Wave tactics work, quantity eventually makes quality irrelevant if you can't stop the tide.
It depends who they are fighting. An opponent with intelligence and enough ability can take advantage of their stupidity to kill a large chunk of them in one go. Also, technically, he wouldn't need to stop the CGs indefinitely, he'd just need to stop them for long enough for everyone to escape and, ideally, for the actual problem to be dealt with.
They'd then just adapt and come in force immediately every time he shows up. Alaya isn't stupid.
Honestly, I don't see any indication of Alaya possessing the capacity to do such a thing. Plus, if he's dealing with the actual problem then Alaya should be fine with that. It doesn't particularly care about being stopped as long as the mess is cleaned up.
...He interfered with them. Logically, he's a threat to the world if he stops a Counter Guardian from doing it's duty. Therefore, extermination is a priority of Alaya, as he is a threat to humanity due to interfering with it's protecting humanity.
And Paradox is always a lazy cop out excuse.
I don't think that Alaya works like that. It only deals with
immediate threats, not
potential threats. Hence why it doesn't send a whole bunch of CGs at Sakura in HF.
Well, to elaborate on what Magos is saying further, the Counter Guardians and their interaction with their target isn't too far off from what happens in the human immune system. Even if a cell is healthy, if it displays or is missing the the right receptors, your T-cells are going to kill it regardless. Same with the CGs and Alaya. Anything Alaya designates as a threat the CGs go after to destroy, even if they aren't actually causing a problem. That's a huge reason why Archer is as angry and bitter as he is about being a Counter Guardian.
Yeah, but if the cell gets cured by some other method, the immune system stops attacking it.
Interfering with that designates Toshi as a target. He's going to cause more damage trying to stop them than he is just ignoring them. Unlike with the human body, where killing healthy cells is kinda bad and the immune system has checks and balances to keep that from happening, humanity will ultimately be fine even if the CGs do their job, as awful as it is. And by the point they start their work, things are pretty bad anyway, so it needs to be done. So Toshi is actually causing more problems than he's solving.
He's not causing problems, though, as long as he deals with the mess. CGs might stop the danger growing, but they do not do so in a particularly efficient way. They just kill everything in sight and then disappear.
It's hardly heroic if his actions ultimately lead to more deaths than he's trying to prevent, however.
Yes, it is. Just like MoS Shirou is not a hero despite the fact that his actions saved lives in the long run.
If you save innocent people, you are a hero, full stop. It doesn't
matter if doing so incidentally lets something worse happen. Particularly when you make every effort to prevent it happening.
Plus if they can't actually kill him as you say, there's no way they can stop him from messing things up, and he'll end up destroying everything in the end.
He's not destroying
anything. He deals with the problem.
The problem here is that you're assuming CGs act in a manner that is designed to minimise human casualties, as opposed to just ensuring the survival of humanity at all costs. It is
quite possible for the problem to be resolved without killing everyone in sight, CGs just don't because they don't have the intelligence to do so.
>"Alaya is not consistant between worlds"
>Alaya is linked to the throne
>Throne of Heroes is consistent between worlds
>Therefore Alaya is consistent between worlds. Your statement is false
THEN WHEN IS THE FIGHT TAKING PLACE? I know she won't seek vengance but to me Satoshi is seeming more and more like a wish fullfilment fantasy sue by the second.
Actually, it's not even clear that the Throne
is consistent between worlds. Certainly I remember an argument on BL that implied it is not. And Alaya
certainly shouldn't be. Alaya is the spirit of humanity, and I don't see how that could realistically travel between worlds. Plus, if Alaya
is a multiversal entity, then humanity is
never in real danger, because there will always be other universes. So, CGs should never be needed. If one world dies, there are an infinite number of others.
First of all, Sues can make mistakes and still be sue-ish, but that's not the main point here. The problem is that the canon stuff has no way to counter him, and as far as I know, Toshi's supposed to be seen as in the right here, or at least heroic. So if he destroys the world in his misguided attempts to save people from CGs, there's nothing to prevent the destruction he causes.
He's not causing any destruction, and he is a hero. Allowing innocent people to be murdered because they're in the wrong place at the wrong time is
not something any real hero should do.
That's actually somewhat villainous, but we're supposed to still see Toshi as this paragon of everything good and right that just made a shortsighted mistake, which isn't what this is.
No, it fucking
isn't. Saving innocent people is
not villainous.
Ever.
