Author Topic: the OC corner  (Read 36842 times)

lantzblades

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Re: the OC corner
« Reply #105 on: February 17, 2014, 02:07:07 AM »
Whatever, sorry but I'm not inclined to listen to you after the other day Alice. Further I was quite clear about Satoshi and my characters in the RP, it's not my fault you haven't listened.

The Man With All The Cute Boats

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Re: the OC corner
« Reply #106 on: February 17, 2014, 02:10:29 AM »
I read that with the voice of a valley girl, it fit perfectly

just let that sink in

lantzblades

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Re: the OC corner
« Reply #107 on: February 17, 2014, 02:33:07 AM »
Moving on I only skimmed that new oc, he seems, hmmm, broad I guess, I'll give a better look later

Alice

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Re: the OC corner
« Reply #108 on: February 17, 2014, 04:10:24 AM »
I hardly think you're the best person to judge anyone's OC...

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Andoriol

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Re: the OC corner
« Reply #109 on: February 17, 2014, 05:28:42 AM »
Moving on I only skimmed that new oc, he seems, hmmm, broad I guess, I'll give a better look later
That's actually deliberate. He's a jack of all trades and (supposed) to be a master of very few as a general rule, but rather obviously, that failed. Gonna get that fixed though!

Anyways, I looked up Satoshi just to see what the big fuss is about and... well... Lantz, I hate to say it, but he really does come across as a Gary Stu (or however you would word it). To give a full breakdown:

the story starts like this, Aoko Zelretch and Merlin enter origin and find that Crimson Moon is fused with Angra Manyu and the moon. Why? Because the multiverse theory states everything is possible and that the bad guy only needs to win once to collapse all of reality. They surmise that they could summon every hero in very universe and stop the end of everything.
This is... kind of crap? At least how you're explaining it here.

From the way the Nasuverse seems to treat the Source/Origin/Root/ 「 」 , it's not something you can alter. It's ALL KNOWLEDGE EVER, sort of like the TRUTH in Full Metal Alchemist.  You can't touch it or affect it in any way. Anyone who has touched it has ceased to exist because you can't comprehend it. Even something like Crimson Moon + Angra Manyu can't. It is infinite.

That said, gives Crimson Moon a huge power boost and the ability to cross dimensional barriers? Sure! Great! Alternatively, just an absolutely horribly bad thing for a significant portion of the multiverse? Sure! This thing winning being bad enough for the local multiverse to justify a huge paradox? Go for it! But affecting  「 」 just... no? Not the way they've defined it in the Nasuverse.

Mind you, I don't have a huge problem with Crimson Moon fused with Angra Manyu, but it'd likely be better stated as Crimson Moon absorbing (and being corrupted by) Angra Manyu as part of absorbing the Holy Grail for power?

Quote
the problem is three fold however. One Zelretch can no longer use the second magic. Two Merlin cannot link origin to the normal world with his own energies. Three Aoko can't find a hero to defeat crim because history says Crimson Moon won.
Why wouldn’t Zeltrech have access to the Second Magic? I’m not sure I understand that.
Could you explain why Merlin can’t link to the normal world a bit better? I can see a few possible reasons but I want to know your reasoning here. The Aoko thing is fine.

Quote
Knowing this they choose a timeline to shatter to solve these issues and force a paradox. This paradox is Satoshi. Ok, well the editor is getting slow so I'll post more later  but I hope everyone understands so far.
Following just fine at this point, but see above for the issues.

Quote
The three sever the time line and begin to modify the paradox to suit their ends. First they cause Gilgamesh to kill Satoshi as a child. Shattering his soul and leaving the majority of it to be protected by the lady of the lake. Saber then gave him Avalon desperate to save her child. His body a receptor for Avalon (the isle) and the fairies magic connected through the noble phantasm caused his growth to continue and with the other pieces of his soul spread to other worlds his Origin became Unification and Restoration  causing him to have a psychological desire to fix broken objects, relationships etcetera.

after Gilgamesh nearly killed him Saber finally relented and began to train her son. She reached out to other heroes from the grail war to do so.

Hercules and Medea taught him Wrestling, Endurance and survival in Hercules case and Magic theory  in Medea's. Later the Latter position would be taken by Merlin. Aoko came to be an association teacher as a result of past events leaving Rin Tohsaka in charge of the association. Aoko would become Satoshi's sponsor of sorts and train and befriend the boy.

Satoshi would later be the test subject for the later named Rider Arm, a belt device created by Rin Tohsaka as a reverse engineering of Zelretch's kaldo Ruby. The prototype attuned to the user (Satoshi) and drew his soul rather than just energy to him from the other worlds. This means that as the later dubbed Rider Crimson is Satoshi fighting at 1500 Times his final power (this assumes Ruby Causes a girl to assume 1000 times their normal ability) this also gave Rin false data on the project leading to a side project later on.

Satoshi learned how to use firearms secretly from his grandfather, although disliking the practice and not having mastery of the craft he knows more than enough to use them.

Satoshi for years expressed a hatred of animals caused by the lost of a familiar created by Medea at Saber's request. This familiar was Satoshi's first friend, a stuffed lion named Gao who could grow as big as a van and appear as a real lion with all the ferocity of the real thing.  The pair were reunited sometime after Satoshi's revival after his first death.

Phew... hoo boy... where to start... okay, how this guy gets his traits and skills is… horrendously convoluted, there’s no good way to say it. Let me see if I can follow this:

1). Gilgamesh kills this guy as a kid (who’s the kid, just to be sure?) and this (somehow?) shatters Satoshi’s soul.
Why Gilgamesh? What's the point of that? Why didn't our three super mages just do that in the first place?

2). Gilgamesh(?) left the majority of said soul to be protected by the Lady of the Lake
Why? As in: What's the reasoning IC for this?

3). Satoshi is (somehow?) Arturia’s child?
... okay...? Who's the dad?

4). He is given Avalon and “His body a receptor for Avalon (the isle) and the fairies magic connected through the noble phantasm caused his growth to continue and with the other pieces of his soul spread to other worlds” so he always had/has/will forever have Avalon and it works for him like it would for Arturia?
Why not just say he's got Avalon and is able to use it normally? What does this do differently than that other than to make Satoshi "more special" (which is uneccessary)?

5). This turned his Origin into Unification and Restoration, making him want to fix shit (as a compulsion?)
... okay, sure. Bit unusual considering Avalon is the crystalized Utopia, but acceptable.

6).  After Gilgamesh nearly killed him, Arturia begins training him (after not training him?) and reaches out to other heroes from the HGW to do so (How? If she still has Avalon, she’s alive, so how does she access these Heroic Spirits?)

7). Heracles and Medea teach him shit
How? How are they able to be in the same place as him at the same time anyways? Why not use other, better teachers? (Not that you can do a lot better than Heracles, but you can do better than Medea)

8). Merlin teaches him shit
Sure! No problems here.

9). Aoko became an association teacher because reasons leaving Rin in charge of the Association
Wait, huh? How does that work out? Aoko doesn’t lead the Association in the first place, how does that put Rin in charge?

10). Aoko becomes Satoshi’s sponsor and trains/befriends the boy
Okay, lost me on how he’s here as well as with Saber at the same time

11). Satoshi gets the Rider Arm which draws soul across realities and lets him fight 1500 times his “full power” compared to the original item (made by Zeltretch) that increases it by 1000 times (by assumption).
This seems… ridiculous. A). Why would this thing work when Zeltrech doesn’t have the second magic? B). Rin is a genius, but Zeltretch is an ancient genius, that something she made exceeds something he did by 50% seems… silly at best. This needs a lot more explanation to be plausible.

12). Satoshi learns how to use firearms (secretly) from his grandfather (who is…?) but doesn’t like them
Why is this added then? It seems like it’s adding a trait just for the sake of adding a trait, something that quickly gets called out as a ‘Sue’ trait as you've definitely been told.

13). Satoshi can die and revive? He used to hate animals but now…. What? He has a stuffed lion that can turn into a battle lion that (somehow?) sticks with him every time he revives?
The problem here is more of the number of questions this raises without any answers rather than the lion thing itself.

And please, before you state that it’s a deliberate paradox, I understand that, but a certain amount of logic is required for readers to suspend their disbelief, and I'm totally missing it. It seems to be exclusively set up to make Satoshi ultra special, and that's sure to turn someone off of a character, regardless of how powerful it makes them (or not). You've also left off any personality quirks, likes, dislikes, flaws, or generally detrimental things about the character.

Alice

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Re: the OC corner
« Reply #110 on: February 17, 2014, 05:51:09 AM »
That's a pretty nice breakdown. Though to clarify on who Satoshi's father is, it's Shirou. Somehow in lantz's universe, all the Servants are still around and fine and OK and married with children (because they're real now, because otherwise that means they're ok to kill apparently, so magically giving them all real bodies fixes that! ...Yeah, don't ask me how that works) and stuff.

Also, this might help you a bit as well:

http://darksidemoon.net/SMF_forum/index.php/topic,55.msg12155.html#msg12155

That's Satoshi's character sheet for Cross Effects. It's apparently what Toshi's abilities are cumulative after his adventures or whatever. ...If you think he looks Stu-ish now, wait until you see the sheet...
« Last Edit: February 17, 2014, 05:53:21 AM by Alice »

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The Man With All The Cute Boats

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Re: the OC corner
« Reply #111 on: February 17, 2014, 05:51:32 AM »
You're okay, kid.

sometimes asking the wrong questions, but hey

You're okay.

Andoriol

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Re: the OC corner
« Reply #112 on: February 17, 2014, 06:07:01 AM »
That's a pretty nice breakdown. Though to clarify on who Satoshi's father is, it's Shirou. Somehow in lantz's universe, all the Servants are still around and fine and OK and married with children (because they're real now, because otherwise that means they're ok to kill apparently, so magically giving them all real bodies fixes that! ...Yeah, don't ask me how that works) and stuff.

Also, this might help you a bit as well:

http://darksidemoon.net/SMF_forum/index.php/topic,55.msg12155.html#msg12155

That's Satoshi's character sheet for Cross Effects. It's apparently what Toshi's abilities are cumulative after his adventures or whatever. ...If you think he looks Stu-ish now, wait until you see the sheet...
...

*raises hand*

...

*puts hand down*

...

*raises hand again and opens mouth*

...

*puts it down and ponders*

...

Lantz, sweetie... this is excessive.

I'm perfectly willing and happy to help you with the character, but the character definitely needs help. I'm willing to give a full breakdown of why, but that's... just too much. There's no better way to put it.



You're okay, kid.

sometimes asking the wrong questions, but hey

You're okay.
Yaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyy

This amuses me more than it should.

Probably because I haven't been called kid in 5+ years.

lantzblades

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Re: the OC corner
« Reply #113 on: February 17, 2014, 06:17:11 AM »
Sorry but you'll either read the story or you won't. I've given up trying to explain him in threads like this one. I am however heeding the one valid point given to me and reformatting the story chronologically. That's all I'll say on the subject.

Alice

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Re: the OC corner
« Reply #114 on: February 17, 2014, 06:29:43 AM »
And then almost no one will read it. Except for a few people like Mike and a fair few masochists like Magos who have a tendency to read stories like that and pick them apart.

I know you like to take all the criticism you receive out on me and act as if I'm the only one that ever gives it, but as is, pretty much no one is going to like your story or read it. What chapters have been released have been ripped to shreds by a number of people elsewhere (I'd say here as well, but for the most part, people have avoided the story on this site), and the majority of the people who have seen him in the RP don't really want to read about him thanks to how unlikeable he comes across there. It's not just me saying these things, as much as you like to act as if I am.

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lantzblades

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Re: the OC corner
« Reply #115 on: February 17, 2014, 07:06:05 AM »
That is a falsehood Alice, that is your incorrect perception of what I do and nothing more. In the future do not speak as if you know what I think.

you are a trigger and I want nothing to do with you.

Arch-Magos Winter

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Re: the OC corner
« Reply #116 on: February 17, 2014, 09:44:51 AM »
Shut the fuck up lantz.

You've never attempted to even consider that the majority of people here are in the right. You act nothing like an author should, and avoid critique like the plague. I envy BL, because they will never need to deal with your shit again. Instead, we do, and I'm fucking sick of it.

lantzblades

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Re: the OC corner
« Reply #117 on: February 17, 2014, 05:10:45 PM »
Clearly you failed to read my recent post where I outright state I'm following a criticism given to me Arch. I am, as was asked illuminating the events in the story by chronologically formatting the story so that everyone can know why things are as they are, this is because the complaint overall was, sure, ok I buy that you could explain why Satoshi is the way he is but there's too much to absorb that's new and it's hard to follow.

Arch-Magos Winter

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Re: the OC corner
« Reply #118 on: February 17, 2014, 06:02:44 PM »
Except it's a complaint that's been leveled before that you outright refused to address until now. Basically Lantz, you can go fuck yourself as you have no respect for your readers.

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Re: the OC corner
« Reply #119 on: February 17, 2014, 06:06:07 PM »
Magos, cut it out.