Author Topic: Europa Universalis IV: Third time the charm?  (Read 14043 times)

Cherry Lover

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Nah, it's one of the Japanese Daimyos, not Japan itself. I'm just not sure which one he picked.

Arch-Magos Winter

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You'll find out soon enough.

Arch-Magos Winter

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Part One: Uesugi Kenshin don't got nothin' on me
« Reply #32 on: April 03, 2014, 09:40:48 PM »
So, having recieved the challenge I did, I made several different starts as different Daimyo's of the time - Takada, Hosakwa, Otomo... but here's the clan I decided on - Uesugi.

The Uesugi clan is an interesting choice historically speaking; they survived the Sengoku period along with the Muromachi, though at the time of EUIV's start, they technically weren't in charge of the lands they governed, and weren't until five years after the start of the game. While provincial governors in the Kanto region of Japan, they were still under the rule of the Deputy of the Shogun, before an execution of a family member at his hands lead to them kicking him out and practically strong arming the Shogun into making them the clan in charge of Kanto.

However, this is not the original timeline. On November 11 of 1444... the Uesugi rose up and overthrew the head of Kanto, installing a new one on the throne... with the permission of the Shogun of course. The new Daimyo - Noritada Uesugi - was an able man, with very good stats and still in his twenties at the time, and most importantly, an Uesugi. The stage was set for the Uesugi to rise.



This is Japan in the last months of 1444. In the last moments of peace the Islands will see for decades to come, as the clans begin to wage wars within the realm of the Shogunate itself. The Uesugi are in a very delicate starting position, and one that is surrounded by enemies. The Shogun holds their rightful province of Musashi, and views them as loyal subjects on one hand while denying them their claims on the other. His tax collectors ravage the coffers of the clan, reducing our income to a sliver of that of the others.



To the north, two hostile powers border us as well - the Date clan clings stubbornly to their cold lands, looking enviously at the holdings of the Uesugi, while the Shiba wish to expand their foothold in the northern lands. Both will need to be crushed before the foolish Shogun can be overthrown. The men of those lands, and the coin they provide will be vital to maintaining the economy of the clan lands.



However, to the south, is where the clan's expansion shall focus at first. Why? The Takeda are weak at the start, and have no allies, but control the most vital of resources that will allow us to fund our armies - Gold. Gold in EUIV is a double edged sword, as it provides a very solid amount of income at the price of rampant inflation if it consists of too much of your income. It'll be the way to make sure we can actually fund the massive armies we need to keep the Shogunate from destroying our lands, when we get too large. The Takeda simply cannot be allowed to remain independant - with their massive income, they can overcome the forcelimit of troops without too much trouble. So, I send an alliance offer to the Imagawa, recieve an answer, and then attack them.

The Takeda ally with the Date just before hand, but they'll do nothing to impact the war as the combined Uesugi and Imagawa forces crush the Takada armies and then lay siege to their lands. Within a year, the war is over.



This was run with no claim or cause, so I took a stability hit, and when I got a claim on the Date's only province, we had a truce. Normally, there'd be a -5 to stability as I had a truce, but I was already at -2 because of that earlier war. The bottom limit is -3, so why not?



It's a short war which completes me a mission, and now the Uesugi have five provinces. We are easily the power in northern Japan, but no where near strong enough to challenge the Shogun's massive armies.



A nice event fires. I'll take that extra military tech thanks.



I forgot to take screenshots of a war I was dragged into by my allies, but the result was about as good as it could be considering I lost my entire army to a massive stack. The Shiba clan was forced to cede the last of the northern provinces to the Uesugi in a peace deal, along with Etchu. Our rule of the Home Island's northern half cannot be contested.



The Imagawa served their purpose. After insulting the mighty Uesugi, they deserve their fate. However, more important that achieving a stranglehold on the most of the island, is upgrading my Military Tech to 3. Let me explain a bit why this is so important.

The Chinese tech group starts at Level 2 in all techs, while Western Europe and Eastern Europe (and the Ottomans) all start at tech 3. The tech cost for the Chinese group is also absurdly high, and the first couple of tech groups give frankly amazing benefits needed in the long run. But the early levels of military power will be vital. Why? It all has to do with the Japanese traditions verses the Daimyo ones. The Daimyo traditions are based on government type, which provides a nice bonus to your military - +10% to Infantry Combat Abilty and to Morale - while not providing much else. The Japanese traditions on the other hand, grant +15% discipline. Even with the morale boost provided by the Daimyo group, one to one, your troops will lose badly to the Shogun's at tech level 2. Your morale isn't high enough to soak that extra damage that discipline provides. However, the jump from tech level 2 to 3 gives an awesome boost, when combined with those you have. Suddenly, I was rolling in 3.5 or so Morale compared to my opponents 2.3 morale. Even with inferior numbers, this would allow me to out endure any of my foes on Japan, no matter their numbers, with a decent general, with close to even numbers

The rapid expansion I'd undertaken in just a decade though, had worn down my manpower and raised my Aggressive Expansion rating to god damn insane levels, over -200 to opinions of my clan. I needed time to build myself up more to be capable of actually fighting the Shogun. It'd happen soon, I could promise you that. I also released the Date as an independent Vassal, to give me that extra time I needed before the Shogun would declare war to annex me.



This event helped out a lot.



This one didn't, especially after a major war to destroy the Shiba clan to raise my Force Limit to a point that I could support an army capable of fighting the Shogun. Then, the event I'd been dreading happened. The Shogun declared war on me to annex the realm of Uesugi. It was a bloody conflict, with the entirety of Japan dragged in against my armies. Thousands of lives were lost in the first disastrous engagement of the war, and I nearly bankrupted myself recruiting mercenaries to replenish my army to the point of being able to take on the Shogun with my massive doomstack. Sadly I forgot to take screenshots of these engagements, primarily because I wasn't expecting this fight until about a decade later in game. But it was rather short, after my first defeat. The Shogun's armies foolishly split up to siege my provinces, and my large stack wiped out each one in turn before starting to be used to seige the provinces the Shogun held. If he lost all his lands, he'd be forced to the negotiating table.



By 1465 and into the early months of 1466, there was no question who would win this conflict with the shogun. He'd taken on the mighty armies of the Uesugi clan personally, and been defeated by a peasant soldier elevated to general after one fo the Uesugi's many wars in the conflicts earlier. It was just a matter of time before the walls of Kyoto itself fell to the clan who were destined to become the true rulers of Japan. The Shogun himself was dragged before the Emperor by the Uesugi diamyo, who held a sword to above the Shogun's neck as he signed the treaties that would end the war, a tanto in his left hand. There was no doubt that he had shamed his family name, honor, and legacy.



The terms were simple - the Shogunate would cede all its lands to the Uesugi. A humiliating defeat, especially to an opponent who had no where near the numbers of men the Shogun rallied to his banner.



There was no other option for the Shogun, but to commit ritual suicide. Uesugi Noritada, Daimyo of the Uesugi lands and clan, had volunteered to be the man to hold the sword above his head, and grant him that last honor during the rite of seppuku, as the Emperor looked on. As soon as the inking was finished, seppuku was performed, and the Shogun's lifeless corpse was bleeding on the tatami mats of the throneroom.  Kneeling in the blood of his former enemy, Noritada was granted the title of Shogun by the Emperor, performing one of the most miraculous rises to power in Japanese history. It had taken 21 years of nearly endless warfare, bloodshed, and luck, but his ambition was granted. From now on, the Uesugi clan would be the rulers of the Japanese Isles. Every daimyo was forced to kneel before their new ruler, and the Uesugi Shogunate was now the undisputed ruler of all of Japan.

A new era had begun. And it would be just as bloody as the last.

Cherry Lover

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Re: Europa Universalis IV: Make Magos Play For Your Amusement! JAPAN IS GO
« Reply #33 on: April 04, 2014, 03:23:43 AM »
Wow, that didn't take long. 21 years is certainly a hell of a lot less than reality, anyway.... I guess the AI being dumb and splitting its army so you could kill it helped rather a lot, it sounds like you might well have lost otherwise.

Anyway, where do you intend to go from here? I assume Korea and probably China, also presumably Hokkaido and possibly north from there.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 03:26:03 AM by Cherry Lover »

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Re: Europa Universalis IV: Make Magos Play For Your Amusement! JAPAN IS GO
« Reply #34 on: April 04, 2014, 03:32:41 AM »
Wow, that didn't take long. 21 years is certainly a hell of a lot less than reality, anyway....

Anyway, where do you intend to go from here? I assume Korea and probably China, also presumably Hokkaido and possibly north from there.
That's actually a horrible idea, attacking either of them - they've both rivaled me and they're pretty damn strong army wise. I don't have the manpower to take on either of them. Manchu is a far better target for expansion. I'm planning on colonizing a line across the northern part of Siberia to make sure that I'll end up bordering Russia, so I can westernize off of them if possible.

For that matter, the Spice Islands are all so so vulnerable...
« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 03:33:22 AM by Arch-Magos Winter »

Cherry Lover

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Re: Europa Universalis IV: Make Magos Play For Your Amusement! JAPAN IS GO
« Reply #35 on: April 04, 2014, 01:30:48 PM »
Hmm, well, I wasn't overly sure what the map layout was. I'm surprised Korea isn't a viable option, though, it certainly was in reality.

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Re: Europa Universalis IV: Make Magos Play For Your Amusement! JAPAN IS GO
« Reply #36 on: April 04, 2014, 09:21:53 PM »
Hmm, well, I wasn't overly sure what the map layout was. I'm surprised Korea isn't a viable option, though, it certainly was in reality.
I'll post a screencap of the map situation sooner or later. But to sum up, I'm the biggest blob on Japan right now, and I released one hell of a big one to help absorb some of the others.

Korea has two edges over me - Military technology, one of their ideas which gives a discount on tech levels, and the Defensive Idea group. I'm planning on taking Offensive/Quantity/Quality later on to help with this (And raise my base discipline to 140%, meaning that Korea's +25% Morale can go suck a dick) and allow myself to overwhelm both Ming and Korea through numbers and troop power, but I'll hopefully catch up in time. Korea's first idea group grant's them a bonus to tech.

Manchu however is the logical route to expand into - give me the force limit boosts to help take on Ming and Korea's alliance if it comes to it, lets me gain power in the Bejing Trade Node, and gives me a way to lock Korea and Ming away from the easier source of Westernization, Russia. Plus, if I vassalize them, I've got Cores out the Wazoo to reclaim from Ming and Korea. And the superior armies to take them on with.

As is though there's a few directions to expand in which make sense - The Spice Islands will allow me to eventually come in contact with the Portugese or Spanish ahead of schedule, and with that, the chance to Westernize before the massive Russian Blob reaches my Doorstep in a few centuries. From the Spice Islands I can expand across the Pacific as well, gaining loads of trade goods and a route to the America's - Imagine the surprise of the Spanish when they discover Japanese California! South East Asia also has a very tempting target in several of the smaller nations there, and would be a jumping ground into India and from there to Africa, from where on I can circumnavigate it and reach Europe.

A few other things that could seriously impact my development would be Ming deciding that I'm worth giving a shit about - they have huge troop limits and a much larger navy than I do. I have that discipline boost but that won't be enough when facing the Ming manpower wise.

A few more things to note are that I'm lagging behind in tech because of all the conquering I did - coring provinces costs monarch power, and so does negotiating peace deals and hiring generals. This is why Westernization will be so important for me.

Kat

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Re: Europa Universalis IV: Make Magos Play For Your Amusement! JAPAN IS GO
« Reply #37 on: April 05, 2014, 03:57:19 AM »
I too managed to unify a Kingdom within 20 years. Namely the Kingdom of Sicily by the Norman dynasty of Hautevilles, as southwards as Malta. Lands that belonged to Sicilian are very wealthy indeed, and I have two options: either use Malta to invade Libia or start reunification of Italy. Given that HRE is in shambles, I decided to focus on the latter, and I liberated already Spoleto and Ancona. As for my neighbor, the Pope, I do not touch him because excommunication is a bitch. I maintain proper relations, and when there is no Muslims to convert left on Sicily (one city already converted), I plan to invade aforementioned Libia to gain more piety from conversions and please the Pope so he is not alarmed by the growing Italian Kingdom.

Meanwhile, I had skirmish with Byzantium which eyed my Greek counties at the tip of peninsula, and it ended with a white peace. When I unify Italy and have more time left, I will perhaps try to recreate Roman Empire.

But on topic, I did expand into lands north to Manchu in my EU2 playthrough. But I left Manchu and Korea to China, since they have cores on them, and they behave aggressively towards any of their owner. Even though I switched to Latin tech group (through a costly event which I modified), 40000 of soldiers vs several 100000 stacks will get their ass kicked. But there is plenty room to expand peacefully into Primorsk and Kamchatka thanks to three conquistadors I can get throughout 150 years. The goal is to deny Russians as many provinces as possible between 1600 to 1750. Once I convert to Victoria, I can have lots of timber and coal for my industry, and gobble up China piece by piece as long as they are uncivilized.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2014, 04:13:11 AM by MysteriousHeroineX »

Alice

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Re: Europa Universalis IV: Make Magos Play For Your Amusement! JAPAN IS GO
« Reply #38 on: April 05, 2014, 04:24:19 AM »
For my vote for the next target, I'd probably say whoever will leave us pretty strong and relatively casualty free taking them down, so when we aim for bigger fish, we're ready much much sooner. :) ...Otherwise I don't have much to say really. XD Blame that on my brain being fried due to sleep deprivation sorts of things.

Besides running the forum, I can provide avatars for people as well~
This is my mod voice. ...Most of the time anyway.

Arch-Magos Winter

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Re: Europa Universalis IV: Make Magos Play For Your Amusement! JAPAN IS GO
« Reply #39 on: April 05, 2014, 04:40:52 AM »
Well, if I want to solidify my position, I need to take over the Ryuku islands. I think it's in one of China's trade nodes.

Cherry Lover

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Re: Europa Universalis IV: Make Magos Play For Your Amusement! JAPAN IS GO
« Reply #40 on: April 05, 2014, 05:13:57 AM »
For my vote for the next target, I'd probably say whoever will leave us pretty strong and relatively casualty free taking them down, so when we aim for bigger fish, we're ready much much sooner. :) ...Otherwise I don't have much to say really. XD Blame that on my brain being fried due to sleep deprivation sorts of things.

Yeah, honestly my knowledge of 14th Century Far Eastern Geography isn't so great, so I don't really know what there is to conquer. I just knew that Japan had a few cracks at taking Korea over the years, so that seemed like a viable target. I am guessing that Hokkaido is a likely target at some point (as well as some of the islands to the North), but I'm not sure if that is really a priority right now.

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Re: Europa Universalis IV: Make Magos Play For Your Amusement! JAPAN IS GO
« Reply #41 on: April 05, 2014, 05:15:37 AM »
For my vote for the next target, I'd probably say whoever will leave us pretty strong and relatively casualty free taking them down, so when we aim for bigger fish, we're ready much much sooner. :) ...Otherwise I don't have much to say really. XD Blame that on my brain being fried due to sleep deprivation sorts of things.

Yeah, honestly my knowledge of 14th Century Far Eastern Geography isn't so great, so I don't really know what there is to conquer. I just knew that Japan had a few cracks at taking Korea over the years, so that seemed like a viable target. I am guessing that Hokkaido is a likely target at some point (as well as some of the islands to the North), but I'm not sure if that is really a priority right now.
Currently, they're held by the Ainu peoples - the Japanese haven't started taking them over in true yet. This is why the exploration ideas is useful - it allows me to colonize the northern island, giving me a staging area to attack Manchuria and expand into Siberia.

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Re: Europa Universalis IV: Make Magos Play For Your Amusement! JAPAN IS GO
« Reply #42 on: April 05, 2014, 05:21:38 AM »
Hmm, so you can't invade without exploring it first?

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Re: Europa Universalis IV: Make Magos Play For Your Amusement! JAPAN IS GO
« Reply #43 on: April 05, 2014, 05:27:08 AM »
Hmm, so you can't invade without exploring it first?
No, but Exploration will allow me to build a Pacific Empire.

The Exploration idea group is expressly focused on Colonization (Same with the expansion, though the expansion group is more economic focused) and the first couple ideas are crucial for the long term of Japan - first, a colonist. This allows you to get the northern Islands colonized. The next is the most crucial though - it allows you to recruit explorers.

If you're wondering "Why should I care about explorers?" - they allow you to go into Terra Incognita, and explore the world. It's how I'll get to meet up with the Westerners. And then learn all their shit and kill the koreans once I westernize.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2014, 05:32:13 AM by Arch-Magos Winter »

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Re: Europa Universalis IV: Make Magos Play For Your Amusement! JAPAN IS GO
« Reply #44 on: April 05, 2014, 07:54:46 AM »
I am now in the year 1500.


This is going to start getting interesting soon.