General Nasuverse Lore/Character/Serious Canon Discussion Thread

[lantzblades]

Well I'll just say this as my last point. Nasu has said all ends are canon, this coupled with the second magic existing means that the Nasuverse runs on the many worlds interpretation. And as such, because with every variable creating a new universe anything is possible, the simplest conclusion is that regardless of canonical accuracy every theory is evidently true in principle.

In short Nasu's greater fact makes the smaller ones irrelevant in the grand scheme. At least for my purposes anyway.

[Kat]

In short Nasu's greater fact makes the smaller ones irrelevant in the grand scheme. At least for my purposes anyway.

Fanon is not canon.

[Brahmastra]

Well I'll just say this as my last point. Nasu has said all ends are canon, this coupled with the second magic existing means that the Nasuverse runs on the many worlds interpretation. And as such, because with every variable creating a new universe anything is possible, the simplest conclusion is that regardless of canonical accuracy every theory is evidently true in principle.

In short Nasu's greater fact makes the smaller ones irrelevant in the grand scheme. At least for my purposes anyway.

Infinite is not all the same as all encompassing. Impossibilities will remain impossibilities across the multiverse unless there's a good argument for the contrary.

[Alice]

Okay, then, since lantz isn't quite getting the point, I'm going to link what the Fate/Stay Night LP has documented for Last Episode:

http://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20397/

Reading it somewhat carefully, there's no real indication here that Shirou ever became a HS. Or even got in there for any sort of heroism. If anything, if I'm reading this right, a lot of it had to do with the fact that Saber wished reeeeeeaaaaaalllly hard for Shirou to be there with her, and after several long journeys on his part, bam, Avalon. There's not really anything substantive here in terms of world building so much. It's mostly "here's your happy end, Seiba fans!"

Possibly I'm reading some of the Shirou journeying bits wrong, in terms of him doing heroic things. But I can confirm that there's nothing about Shirou becoming a Heroic Spirit or Heroic Spirits being able to enter Avalon in here.

[Cherry Lover]

Well I'll just say this as my last point. Nasu has said all ends are canon, this coupled with the second magic existing means that the Nasuverse runs on the many worlds interpretation. And as such, because with every variable creating a new universe anything is possible, the simplest conclusion is that regardless of canonical accuracy every theory is evidently true in principle.

In short Nasu's greater fact makes the smaller ones irrelevant in the grand scheme. At least for my purposes anyway.

Actually, Many-Worlds QM doesn't quite work like that. What it means is that, when a quantum random event occurs, every possible outcome of that event occurs in one universe. Now, because life is inherently chaotic in nature and because quantum fluctuations can have some significant large-scale effects (genetic mutations, for example), you can manage to get quite substantial changes out of that, but you can't change the laws the world runs by, or cause people to do things they are simply incapable of doing or would never choose to do (you can, of course, cause them to be a different person entirely, but then it's not them doing it any more).

[lantzblades]

Impossible is defined by physics, change physics or the other variables and you change what is possible. So I'm still right, anything is possible. And that is just awesome

[Brahmastra]

So I'm still right, anything is possible.

That's an impossibility. For one thing to happen an unsurmountable amount of other things must not happen.

[Alice]

...lantz, I'd think you of all people would know that Mike's an astrophysicist. If anyone would know about how physics work, it'd be him.

[Cherry Lover]

Impossible is defined by physics, change physics or the other variables and you change what is possible. So I'm still right, anything is possible. And that is just awesome

Well, no, anything that is not physically possible in the universe in question is certainly not possible in said universe. And, at least some of the people in this thread have argued it is literally impossible for Shirou to become a HS however hard he tries.

However, as long as there is some set of quantum fluctuations that could cause it to happen then it could happen, yes. That is a fairly broad statement, yes (although not an infinitely broad one, there has to be some way that random events could cause Shirou to follow that path) but it is limited somewhat further if we're requiring it be Fate Shirou specifically (there are less possible variations available in that case since the change has to start later).

[lantzblades]

Nothing is impossible, word of god confirms it, end of story. Far as I'm concerned I don't actually have to prove anything thanks to Nasu.

[Cherry Lover]

Again, that is simply not true. At absolute most, Many-Worlds theory means that anything that is possible will happen in some universe (and even that isn't certain, because there has to be some set of quantum events that could lead to it). It certainly does not make the impossible possible. Even if you have an infinite number of worlds, something that has literally zero chance of happening will still happen in none of them.

[Brahmastra]

Nothing is impossible, word of god confirms it, end of story. Far as I'm concerned I don't actually have to prove anything thanks to Nasu.

I'd like a source please. Unless of course that source is deeply incriminating upon your personal life, your Ctrl+c/ctrl+v doesnt work or just doesnt exist.

[Umbra of Chaos]

Again, that is simply not true. At absolute most, Many-Worlds theory means that anything that is possible will happen in some universe (and even that isn't certain, because there has to be some set of quantum events that could lead to it). It certainly does not make the impossible possible. Even if you have an infinite number of worlds, something that has literally zero chance of happening will still happen in none of them.

Well for becoming a HS Shirou would have to do something important enough to become a legend. He would also need to have been lived during the time Jack the Ripper, Li, or the AoG since modern day people cannot become HS. Even people with completely unique abilities or magecraft like Zeltretch or Aoko cannot be HS and Tracing is not on the level of the True Magics.

[Cherry Lover]

Where does it say that modern people absolutely cannot become Heroic Spirits? I know it's difficult, yes, but impossible?

[Alice]

MHX posted it earlier:

http://darksidemoon.net/SMF_forum/index.php/topic,371.msg13910.html#msg13910