General Nasuverse Lore/Character/Serious Canon Discussion Thread

[Cherry Lover]

Is it impossible for non-DA human to stay thousands of years alive without his soul rotting?

I don't think being a DA is relevant, certainly. The souls of DAs definitely do rot, that's why they need to drink blood, and why they tend to get worse over time.

I suspect it is possible for a human to survive without their soul rotting, though. Certainly quite a few magi seem to have very long lives.

[Kat]

Zouken confirms the limit is about 300 hundred years without soul rot. He was a very skilled magus. Probably only Araya did better, but that may have something to with his Origin of Stillness.

[Umbra of Chaos]

Is it impossible for non-DA human to stay thousands of years alive without his soul rotting?

I don't think being a DA is relevant, certainly. The souls of DAs definitely do rot, that's why they need to drink blood, and why they tend to get worse over time.

I suspect it is possible for a human to survive without their soul rotting, though. Certainly quite a few magi seem to have very long lives.

Sure a couple hundred of years. Thousands is a whole different level. As far as I know the only person in the MA to reach a thousand years is the Director and we don't know anything about him.

[Cherry Lover]

Zouken confirms the limit is about 300 hundred years without soul rot. He was a very skilled magus. Probably only Araya did better, but that may have something to with his Origin of Stillness.

Zouken is a skilled magus, but I'm not sure he is the best magus around, so I don't think we can use him as an absolute limit. Plus, it's implied that Zouken's soul is rotting more because he keeps changing bodies (which essentially means he has lost the "original blueprints" and has a load of crap on top of his main body) than because he is old. I think that, as long as you manage to keep your original body, you'll probably be fine (eventually your soul might rot, but I think the body will invariably rot first).

[Arch-Magos Winter]

I do think though 'death' in any fashion is what starts the soul rot. In other words, if you sort of die and get revived, your soul will rot to bits.

[Kat]

The more people know about given mystery, the less potent it is?

[Cherry Lover]

OK, in Lantz's Q&A thread, Brah said that Gil has a version of everything that ever existed, even if he never had it in his life. That is not how I thought GoB worked, I always believed it worked on the principle that he has everything he possessed in life, which includes the prototype for just about everything. Is there actually any evidence of Brah's statement, or is he just assuming it on the basis that it's how he thinks GoB should work?

[Umbra of Chaos]

CCC said something along the lines of Gil having the root of human wisdom or something like that. Basically if a human made it or owned it he has something that follows the original concept better.

So he has the holiest holy sword, the strongest sword, a potion/item that helps him regen much faster, an item that can isolate him from this dimension, but not Excalibur or Avalon.

[Alice]

Pretty much the only exception I can think of is something like Avalon, which is beyond human comprehension because fairy make, if I remember right, and of which there's only one of. I could be remembering wrong though. For everything else though? If it was made, Gil has a superior prototype of it in GoB.

[Cherry Lover]

CCC said something along the lines of Gil having the root of human wisdom or something like that. Basically if a human made it or owned it he has something that follows the original concept better.

So he has the holiest holy sword, the strongest sword, a potion/item that helps him regen much faster, an item that can isolate him from this dimension, but not Excalibur or Avalon.

Didn't Saber own Excalibur and Avalon, though?

Pretty much the only exception I can think of is something like Avalon, which is beyond human comprehension because fairy make, if I remember right, and of which there's only one of. I could be remembering wrong though. For everything else though? If it was made, Gil has a superior prototype of it in GoB.

Well, my point is that there is a distinction between "Gil has a prototype for every Noble Phantasm because he owned them all before they were Noble Phantasms" and "Gil gets a superior version of everything even if it is not something that he would have had in life".

I always assumed it was the first, because the second sounds utterly stupid, but from that quote it sounds like it is actually the second.

[Umbra of Chaos]

Think of it like this. Gil has Gram (or was it Merodach? ) which is Caliburn's prototype. Excalibur has no prototype so Gil can't throw its prototype at it and watch it crumble because there is none. However Gil would have the holiest holy sword. A blade that perfectly embodies the concept of being holy.

[Cherry Lover]

Yeah, but he has Caliburn's prototype because he would have had it in life. And, we never see him have any "perfect version of Excalibur". And, he certainly doesn't seem to have anything like Avalon, because if he did then surely he'd have used it at some point.

[Umbra of Chaos]

Yeah, but he has Caliburn's prototype because he would have had it in life. And, we never see him have any "perfect version of Excalibur". And, he certainly doesn't seem to have anything like Avalon, because if he did then surely he'd have used it at some point.

It isn't a "perfect" Excalibur, but Excalibur is a holy sword. Therefore he should have a holy blade that is better at being holy then Excalibur. Not more powerful, but more holy.

[Cherry Lover]

What exactly is the quote you're referring to as proof of this? Because the idea of Gil retroactively getting a "perfect" version of anything any human makes seems just plain stupid to me.

[Umbra of Chaos]

Hold on. I have to go digging through the CCC thread at BL for the exact quote.

Rather than treasures, what Gilgamesh has stored is the "starting point of human wisdom" itself.
If there is something that the King of Heroes' vault does not have, that is either "something invented by a new breed of humans by means of entirely new concepts" or "something based on the cultural technology of the intelligent life from another celestial body".

Found it.