Of Swords and Sorcery (Chronological edition discussion)

[Umbra of Chaos]

Kirei cannot fight his nature. That is all he is. He's better off committing suicide.

[lantzblades]

Umbra that is so god damn offensive. Seriously topic dropped now.

[Brahmastra]

Kirei fights his nature and becomes a hero.

Except thats 100% impossible and not offensive at all.

[lantzblades]

Brah, leave, now please.

[Brahmastra]

"I can't argue with you coz you're right so get out"

Lantz you're seriously the most pathetic sub-human in the entire TM fandom.

[Cherry Lover]

^ I just want an explanation other than it could happen somehow. If I said Samurai could become evil but never mention AM I doubt you would be happy. Youre telling me something can happen without saying how.

We know that alternate paths are possible because we've seen FSN. I doubt that, having watched only Fate, you could predict the events of UBW or HF (or even that they could happen), so I see no reason why I should be expected to do the same.

Plus, honestly, I don't remember Zero well enough to see the likely divergence points. I just find it highly improbable that, whilst the fifth war has, at minimum, three completely different paths (ignoring the Bad Ends), the fourth war would be rigidly fixed to just one possible route.

"I can't argue with you coz you're right so get out"

Lantz you're seriously the most pathetic sub-human in the entire TM fandom.

OK, Brah, get out right now. Disliking Lantz's work and giving criticism of it is fine, personal attacks and insults are not. I will not tolerate any of this crap.

[lantzblades]

Umbra basically advocated suicide in lieu of self improvement or change, I won't tolerate such speech, now Brah take your abusive language and leave.

[Umbra of Chaos]

There is no change for Kirei Lantz. That is his life. There is nothing more for him than that. You have as much of a chance as making Shirou evil.

[Cherry Lover]

I don't think that's entirely true. Kotomine will only ever get pleasure from suffering, but that doesn't mean he can't have morals and follow those morals. Hell, for all his fundamentally good nature, even Shirou can still end up doing evil things. Archer in UBW, for example, does some pretty horrible things, and MoS Shirou does as well.

[Umbra of Chaos]

But even those actions can be called good. He is saving innocents isn't he? Kirei will never be able to obtain satisfaction from being good. He would only exist purposeless and unhappy. He either chooses accepts his nature, commits suicide, or leaves himself unhappy and purposeless until he dies.

[lantzblades]

Umbra, seriously, shut it. It is a very very very offensive thing you are advocating here. Stop, now.

[Cherry Lover]

But even those actions can be called good. He is saving innocents isn't he? Kirei will never be able to obtain satisfaction from being good. He would only exist purposeless and unhappy. He either chooses accepts his nature, commits suicide, or leaves himself unhappy and purposeless until he dies.

I wouldn't say what he did in MoS was "good".

Plus, why wouldn't Kotomine be able to follow a path like Archer followed? Archer hated it because, despite trying to do good, he ended up hurting people, but Kotomine would love it. He gets to hurt people, but he does it for a greater cause. He is far more suited to that path than Shirou is.

Anyway, please drop the "Kotomine should just kill himself" thing. Advocating that someone should commit suicide because they are "unsalvagable" is obviously something that upsets Lantz personally, and I think this is going to turn nasty if it keeps going.

[Lycodrake]

For once I agree with lantz: please shut up about suicide, Umbra.

[The Man With All The Cute Boats]

What you Umbra, Names are preaching is stillness and stagnation. I reject them both as they are the death of creativity. As such this argument becomes pointless. You can drop the point and move on to another subject or leave the thread, please.

A world in which some things are possible and yet some things are 100% impossible is somehow the death of creativity?

This is funny to me

because it's the opposite, really, a world where you can't do everything forces you to be creative

[lantzblades]

In some cases yes names, from a design standpoint and story telling standpoint (especially when dealing with Many worlds) I disagree. Freedom let's you create unique setups. If every world here were just the nasuverse stock standard it would be repetitive at best.