character Q and A

[SINIB]

As an example, compare Rin's development vs. Sakura's development in FSN. (No offense to any fans)

Rin is introduced very early, and has the entire story to develop her character, to varying degrees. Prologue and Fate establish who she is, UBW gives her some development, and HF continues that development while also expanding her backstory and such.

Sakura, on the other hand...while she's also introduced early on, and she has some establishing moments, she has practically no (visible) role in the first two routes. It isn't until HF that we get to see some development for her, and unfortunately, even this had to share a spotlight with A LOT of other plot developments in her route. As a result, a lot of people tend to overlook Sakura for the other characters, who had been established in prior routes and thus (to them) seemed much more interesting.

This is true, sadly. And Sakura's established better early on than Satoshi.

[Cherry Lover]

Yeah, but Sakura is not a flat or poorly-developed character, and she's developed in that way because she has to be for the story to work. The problem is that a lot of people just fast-forward through her development because they want to see flashy fight scenes....

[KAIZA]

Or, hell, just look at Kotomine vs. Zouken. Kotomine was an established villain in Fate, and even if he had a lesser role in UBW, he had a more prominent role and development in HF. Zouken only appears in HF, and as a result, his entire development is either rushed or expanded outside the story. Now, tell me, which of these two characters people find more interesting?

[SINIB]

Yeah, but Sakura is not a flat or poorly-developed character, and she's developed in that way because she has to be for the story to work. The problem is that a lot of people just fast-forward through her development because they want to see flashy fight scenes....

That wasn't the point, Mike. He was saying she's percieved as undevelpoed by alot of people, not that she is underdeveloped.

[KAIZA]

Yeah, but Sakura is not a flat or poorly-developed character, and she's developed in that way because she has to be for the story to work. The problem is that a lot of people just fast-forward through her development because they want to see flashy fight scenes....

That wasn't the point, Mike. He was saying she's perceived as undeveloped by alot of people, not that she is underdeveloped.

It doesn't help that the entire "Dark Sakura" issue ended up giving a lot of people the wrong ideas about her. Turning villainous in your own route while the other characters get more development because of it did not do the character any favors...

[SINIB]

Why is it alright for the mods to go off topic?

[KAIZA]

Well, technically it is on topic, since we were discussing the issues about the story, and these were just examples. If things were going off-topic, I would have cut this discussion long ago, when I asked you yesterday to just leave the thread be.

[lantzblades]

@Kaiza

it's a time travel story, I AM ESTABLISHING THE SETTING. Secondly Shirou is forty nine years old when Satoshi is eighteen, excuse me for taking forty chapters to explain all that has happened since the time he was born and then the new cast as the hero grows up.

there's a lot to tell and giving the readers context is important.

@Bdoom

you lie, Justica is never mentioned in the four chapters, you are thereby complaining for no reason.

[KAIZA]

@Kaiza

it's a time travel story, I AM ESTABLISHING THE SETTING. Secondly Shirou is forty nine years old when Satoshi is eighteen, excuse me for taking forty chapters to explain all that has happened since the time he was born and then the new cast as the hero grows up.

there's a lot to tell and giving the readers context is important.

@Bdoom

you lie, Justica is never mentioned in the four chapters, you are thereby complaining for no reason.

I'll just say this, one last time.
Just going by the first chapter, the hook of the story. At no point, when reading the first chapter, did I think "Hm, yeah, this is a time travel story." When I read it, the impression I got was "Hm, OK, so there's these three characters, they're planning something and...what...the...why are we...they're wrestling...and ORT...how..."

What that means, is that you FAILED TO ESTABLISH THE SETTING. You tried to establish a mystery, and it was OK-ish, but you utterly failed the second, most important part.

The only reason I know it's a time travel story, and that it's another universe, is because YOU TOLD US. We didn't get that from the story, we had to be told, out of story, by the author. That is a no-no.

Also, Bdoom, please, don't reply to him. That's bound to just aggravate both you and lantz; and I don't think anybody wants to deal with another argument. =_=

[lantzblades]

No, I didn't. I wasn't trying to say this is a time travel story with the first chapter, the prologue implied that it was Kaiza.

[KAIZA]

I mentioned the prologue there, lantz (the three characters planning something part). I grouped it with the first chapter because both of them are in the same post. And, no, the prologue didn't imply it was a time travel story either. Again, we had to be TOLD by you for us to even realize it was.

Honestly, I give up.

[lantzblades]

Actually it's only because you forgot Aoko is the master of time. If she's present travel, in time, is implied, even if that weren't enough chapter three fixes that but in either case you've missed my point. The setting is being established, it's weird yeah, no argument, it's supposed to be. But it's all important for context.

it's a fairly simple set up.

introduce magi we know, explain the overarching situation, present solution, show solution at work. The only difference is like parallel works the solution (in this case Satoshi) is not temporally the ones we see but another one entirely (hence their failures) the reason they exist is to prove that he can fail or die. Which is important because he's given Avalon.

[Knick]

No she isn't though, Zel actually has the nickname of "Old Man Time" as one of his many titles.

We did not even know Aoko could do stuff with time till Mahou, which was far after all the Fate materials you claim were after you wrote up your story.

And even then what she does is not really time travel but rather manipulation of order of events, such as postponing someones death.

Witness, “Wizard Marshall” Kischua Zelretch Schweinorg
One of the only five True Magicians in the world. Zelretch served as the witness during the creation of the Greater Grail. He is an old man with many nicknames. He has been referred to as “Wizard Marshall”, “(Zelretch ) Of the Jewel”, “Kaleidoscope”, “Old Man Time” and many other names. The 5 phenomenon that cannot be achieved through sorcery or science are called “True Magic”, and those individuals who can invoke these are called “True Magicians”. Zelretch once fought the existence known as “Crimson Moon”. Although emerging victorious (draw?), he paid a heavy price. As a result of this engagement, he became severely aged, and his powers diminished. And it was also at that time, he was bitten by the Crimson Moon and turned into a vampire. His name was entered into the list of “The 27 Dead Apostle Ancestors”, which documents powerful vampires.

[SINIB]

Oh shit you're right. What thefuck, lantz

[lantzblades]

Actually knick it was melty blood. The translation of Aoko's quotes were what old BLer's gave to me when I asked about it. We presumed back then it was time travel and it turned out to line up with what we thought. As for it not being such and such, time manipulation is the foundation of time travel, so if anything Aoko is simply stronger than I thought.