character Q and A

[lantzblades]

@Bdoom

Ok then, but how, if the soul only gets recycled does the entire afterlife structure work? Dozens of heroes visit after lives of their respective religions. If those places don't exist dozens of tales (including Hercules, Medea and Rider) are false, especially Rider's.

@Kuro

if not for his origin he would have been swallowed by the dragon, that's why they changed it.

in the original Gilgamesh specifically became a target to make Satoshi a hero. He decided that Satoshi, like any person ought to have the right to choose his own destiny. And not to be led about by a bunch of conniving magi.

without this element to Gilgamesh he doesn't belong in the story period.

[SINIB]

@Bdoom

Ok then, but how, if the soul only gets recycled does the entire afterlife structure work? Dozens of heroes visit after lives of their respective religions. If those places don't exist dozens of tales (including Hercules, Medea and Rider) are false, especially Rider's.

@Kuro

if not for his origin he would have been swallowed by the dragon, that's why they changed it.

in the original Gilgamesh specifically became a target to make Satoshi a hero. He decided that Satoshi, like any person ought to have the right to choose his own destiny. And not to be led about by a bunch of conniving magi.

without this element to Gilgamesh he doesn't belong in the story period.

Lantz, first read my edits, I added alot of relevant info for that topic.

If those places don't exist dozens of tales (including Hercules, Medea and Rider) are false, especially Rider's.

All three of these specificly are ficticious heros.

Birth of Heroic Spirits
It's been explained that Heroic Spirits are beings that heroes whom belief has been gathered upon become after death, but heroes of myths and legends can be born by the gathering of belief even if they didn't exist. Also, there are those who those who make a contract of some sort with the world when they were alive and as compensation become Heroic Spirits after death. In the Fifth War, Hasan Sabaha was a hero that actually existed, and Herakles and Medusa are legendary heroes. Also, Emiya and Altria are beings that became (or will become) Heroic Spirits after their contract with the world. Those who have become Heroic Spirits are freed from the constraints of time and are moved to the Throne of Heroes, existing to the outside of the World.

and lantz, a dragon's soul would infalibly overwrite the soul of anyone unlucky enough to merge with it's soul, regardless of origin. They're just far too mysterious and powerful for anything else, even the weakest of them.

[lantzblades]

No, Hercules is not Bdoom. Kojiro is fictitious, Hercules is not imaginary in the Nasuverse. Yes, a dragon would, except that his origin prevents that and reverses the direction of the assimilation. For that matter answer the questions yourself instead of diverting them or parroting others. Especially when they are wrong (Archer is hero because of his deal, not because of renown) you can't just have a dragon. So that bit about Saber is flawed.

[SINIB]

Lantz, I literally sourced my statement. Herakles is on the throne because many people worshipped him, and believed in his existence. Kojiro is not because he's just a nameless farmer.

[SINIB]

No, Hercules is not Bdoom. Kojiro is fictitious, Hercules is not imaginary in the Nasuverse. Yes, a dragon would, except that his origin prevents that and reverses the direction of the assimilation. For that matter answer the questions yourself instead of diverting them or parroting others. Especially when they are wrong (Archer is hero because of his deal, not because of renown) you can't just have a dragon. So that bit about Saber is flawed.

Parroting them? How am I parroting questions?

So that bit about Saber is flawed.

Source your information then, I've brought mine.

Also about satoshi's origin. Can you provide a nasuey enough explaination for why his origin does this?

[Cherry Lover]

Lantz, I literally sourced my statement. Herakles is on the throne because many people worshipped him, and believed in his existence. Kojiro is not because he's just a nameless farmer.

Where does this come from, BTW? Because it sounds like either a misinterpretation or else just some bullshit Nasu made up on the spot that makes no damn sense....

[SINIB]

https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1NEZzQsil7Zgkajr6ESYIoW1JNN6aeBuG4kE2SZWghXw#h.6vct55x3y432

[lantzblades]

Kojiro's real identity has never been stated. It was speculated to be a farmer given the period.

Archer flat-out stated his state as a heroic spirit is because of his contract with the world, not anything he did.

you keep quoting Seika, not reasoning out an answer, I don't want someone else's interpretation spat at me, I asked you the question Bdoom, not her.

[SINIB]

Kojiro's real identity has never been stated. It was speculated to be a farmer given the period.

Archer flat-out stated his state as a heroic spirit is because of his contract with the world, not anything he did.

you keep quoting Seika, not reasoning out an answer, I don't want someone else's interpretation spat at me, I asked you the question Bdoom, not her.

This isn't seika's thoughts. the seika doc is just a large compilation of forum sources. it's literally just called that because she complied it.

False Assassin

- 純粋な剣技のみで言えば、今回の聖杯戦争中最高のサーヴァントである。
Also, since this came up a few days back.
"In terms of pure swordsmanship, Assassin is the greatest among the Servants of this Holy Grail War."
(Forum Source)
- /Tsubame Gaeshi is the skill on the level of Noble Phantasms. Sasaki doesn't imbue the power of Multi-Dimensional Refraction Phenomenon into each and every strike (although if he did, that would be all sorts of awesome)./
その果てにサーヴァントの宝具が備える神秘と互角の剣技を得るに至った。
Oh, dear. It doesn't seem to be talking about Tsubame Gaeshi. It seems to be talking about his sword technique in general. Tsubame Gaeshi is just sort of the culmination of all that.
(Forum Source)
[Seika trans. ~ In the end, he has gained skill with the sword equal in mystery to that of a Servant's Noble Phantasm. (Very roughly)]
-No, see, you're not really getting it. We all know Sasaki has no NP, but what's reached that level is "his skill with the sword". Tsubame Gaeshi is his best technique, but it's more or less just an expression of that transcendent skill.
(Forum Source)
- The problem with Kojiro is more complicated.
If you look at the ye olde Fate Side Material, Type Moon already made margins for imaginary heroes.
Nasu explained in the CM2 interview that he wanted Assassin to reflect the changes that have occurred between the conception of Fate and Fate/Stay Night. For Hercules, even if he is imaginary, at least we are certain there is one Hercules. Nasu apparently found through his own research that, Kojiro may have existed, and he may have not, and there may have been even three separated Kojiros. Even the legends are not at all in concord.                                                 
(Forum Source)
- /Nasu: ...If there were a database for humanity, then Assassin was the piece of data that matched the parameters of Kojiro Sasaki. As a result, Assassin's personality would become Kojiro's personality, and Assassin's monumental feats would become that of Kojiro's rather than his.../
Nameless Farmer happened to more or less sync up with Kojiro, so he got fitted into the role. This in turn added all of Nameless Farmer's skills to Kojiro's.
(Forum Source)                                                                                         

I'm sourcing it because it's a convient repository for canon information.
also about archer:

Also, there are those who those who make a contract of some sort with the world when they were alive and as compensation become Heroic Spirits after death.

I'd like an apology for the accusatory words.

[lantzblades]

I saw none of that in the original post. Excuse the technical error. As for the rest, like usual Nasu didn't think, he destroyed what was an effective and cool setting. However now everyone is fake and magic might as well be crap for how much sense it makes. There's no point in a reboot when the characters have to be a bunch of nihilistic failures and any real conclusion hampered by stupid exceptions and rules.

[SINIB]

Lantz, there's no reason you can't have medusa, medea, or herakles given flesh(from a them being fake standpoint). Medusa stayed after hf true.

[SINIB]

and do you mean magic or sorcery?

[SINIB]

https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1NEZzQsil7Zgkajr6ESYIoW1JNN6aeBuG4kE2SZWghXw#h.sqtah5nldnjw

Here, just read this for starters.

[lantzblades]

If they are fake then the locations and events are false, as a result they lose meaning in the world at large, once the world shrinks they lose their place and their reason for being there.

as usual I have to remind you of the google tech issue I have.

and I meant magic as a whole.

the world is basically the ultimates universe now. Nothing is recoverable to make a reboot from.

[SINIB]

Sorry, forgot about the google thing. They're not fake in the same way kojirou is.