Cross Effects: Rebirth (2.0) Discussion Page (OOC).

[Kurogami]

Thank You Brahmastra for being open about your (and apparently a number of other peoples') opinions on this.

I am going to try to go through your points and give an adequete response to each of them; Feel free to tell me off about how terrible they are.

[Knick]

Really long Shiro intro posted.

[Gray]

I did wonder what made you decide to do the endgame MC Kurogami.
With F/SN it can pull off characters that reached the end of their roles in their stories well mainly because their stories didn't exactly have happy endings. Continuing after what seems to be an MC that has gotten the best possible outcome isn't exactly exciting as they already have everything going for them and the only way you can make that interesting is if you write a story about their fall.
Also while social links are integral to Persona you already have the maxed versions so what would you or the other people gain out of it?
We also have some powerful characters Kuro but in order to interact with somone as a friend and get close to them they can't seem so alien the Persona 3 MC you are playing does. In the persona games you start relatively weak and on the same level as most social links don't you? Or at the very least they should be unaware of your abilities during the link creation if they are normal, right? Unless most relationships are made to develop the relatrionship between god tier MC and relatively pitiful mortal (I haven't played teh persona series cut me some slack) which I think would get boring after a while.

[Milbunk]

Alright she got approved, now where should she go...

[Knick]

As a note, Shiro's orphange is in the north-west of the no-mans land. Not far from the tokyo tower.

[Kurogami]

Explanation of my badness part 1

1. He has Servant stats before applying any boosts or using his Evoker. I repeat, an ordinary highschooler with an average physique has stats that equal 20 or 30 times those or ordinary humans (Depending on whether it's C or D rank respectively). This is just flat out retarded, no two ways about it. Even with a Persona he's just scratching WAY too high on the Servant scale.

Yes it is...

I ended up settling on this way of setting stats because I had nothing better at the time; afterwards I did think of two other ways I could have done it, but implementing them would require me to rewrite most of my sheet. I did however recently think of just setting Xs for his stats with a note that his base stats are equal to the listed stats for the equipped persona, with the evoked persona having double that, does that sound marginally better?

2. He still has Charisma, that was removed.

I will semi jokingly say that it is not a charisma stat but a skill. More seriously, calling it charisma was a joke on the fact that a maxed charm stat is called "Charismatic" the description of the skill basically says it is how attractive you are, the how it affects people thing is semantic bullshitery.

3. A highschooler with above average grades somehow has intellegence "beyond the peak of humanity". Yeah, no.

This I honestly just misworded, I tried to say "near the peak of humanity" then changed to "beyond what can be achieved simply through study" to make it more vague and it turned into that without me noticing. I will fix that with the rest later.


There Will Be More.

[Brahmastra]

Very glad that you're taking this to heart. I could see his current base stats being roughly the same or perhaps slighter lower than him with Messiah (which, IIRC, is the strongest Persona there is), if you're revamping his stats. Without using his Evoker he should probably have C-B mortal (average-to-above-average) in every stat.

The revamp to Intelligence being "This dude is pretty fucking smart for a highscooler" works a lot better.

[Kurogami]

Before I begin this next part I must make clear that while I do have every intent on trying to make Minato more tolerable for everyone, my sanity would not be able to withstand a rewrite and I do still want him to be powerful, so while I am willing to make compromises I do not intend to nerf him to the point that I can no longer play the way I wish to. That being said if he is truly still intolerable after the changes I will soon be making then I will make a post or two more with him to get Tokiomi and Jojo out of the dorm and then ask that Minato be officially removed.

Explanation of my badness part 2

4. He has an Enuma Elish equivalent. Enuma Elish is a concept that literally predates Earth and has such a stupendous amount of power that it cant even be listed. Why in the name of all that is holy does Minato have anything on this scale?

This was actually entirely intentional on my part, and it is the end of the freaking world, not maybe the end, not mostly the end, THE END.

It should be able to match the beginning of it, not even getting into the fact that it is used by merging the power of Helel and Satan, two of the heaviest hitters in the cosmos even at reduced power.

That being said the usage requirements are immense. He has to be at full prana to use it, and when he does it uses all of his prana, to the point that a second shot the same day is impossible, Period; Regardless of if he uses it at the lowest or highest setting. So at best, he could match max output EE ONCE, after which point Minato is basically useless and Gilgamesh is free to use the same attack that Minato just stopped, Again. Said fight against Gil is the only reason I can be certain I would ever use it anyway.

5. A sword that can somehow cut anything that apparently exceeds Excalibur? Highly unbelievable.

Not really...

My humor shines through a bit on this too. Strictly speaking it is a sword of cutting, and Excalibur is not, Invisible Air is a better cutting tool than Excalibur in most cases. Also the persona three Excalibur is actually weaker than the Holy Grail Lucifer. So it is superior to the Excalibur from it's original world as well.

Plus It is a Holy Grail Sword of Light Forged From the Jewels of Lucifer's Crown...

But no, I am not expecting it to slice through NPs, Steel and Stone yes, but not NPs, or True Magic stuff.

There is still more, bear (heh) with me.

[Kat]

Mordred got approved, now she needs to be summoned.

[Cherry Lover]

With F/SN it can pull off characters that reached the end of their roles in their stories well mainly because their stories didn't exactly have happy endings. Continuing after what seems to be an MC that has gotten the best possible outcome isn't exactly exciting as they already have everything going for them and the only way you can make that interesting is if you write a story about their fall.

I don't think that's necessarily true. My characters are generally happy, for example, they can still have adventures. Sure, a happy ending makes it hard for him to do much in his world, but once he moves somewhere else it's another matter.

[Brahmastra]

My humor shines through a bit on this too. Strictly speaking it is a sword of cutting, and Excalibur is not, Invisible Air is a better cutting tool than Excalibur in most cases. Also the persona three Excalibur is actually weaker than the Holy Grail Lucifer. So it is superior to the Excalibur from it's original world as well.

Plus It is a Holy Grail Sword of Light Forged From the Jewels of Lucifer's Crown...

And Excalibur is a Divine Construct forged from mankind's collective hopes and dreams by Fae. There's a reason it's "Strongest Holy Sword" we know, even when we know the specifics of stuff like Balmung and Gram.

Plus, gems don't even make for good swords.

[Elf]

Plus, gems don't even make for good swords.

Nope, they're too brittle. 

Diamond's the hardest substance on earth.  Give me a hammer and I can turn it into powder.

[Cherry Lover]

My humor shines through a bit on this too. Strictly speaking it is a sword of cutting, and Excalibur is not, Invisible Air is a better cutting tool than Excalibur in most cases. Also the persona three Excalibur is actually weaker than the Holy Grail Lucifer. So it is superior to the Excalibur from it's original world as well.

Plus It is a Holy Grail Sword of Light Forged From the Jewels of Lucifer's Crown...

And Excalibur is a Divine Construct forged from mankind's collective hopes and dreams by Fae. There's a reason it's "Strongest Holy Sword" we know, even when we know the specifics of stuff like Balmung and Gram.

It's the strongest holy sword we know in the Nasuverse. Minato isn't from the Nasuverse, so there's no reason his equipment has to follow that.

Plus, gems don't even make for good swords.

Nope, they're too brittle. 

Diamond's the hardest substance on earth.  Give me a hammer and I can turn it into powder.

Yeah, but gold is also a terrible material for making armour, yet most games still have the best armour being golden (and Gil's armour is the same). It's just video game physics.

Hell, even Rin has a gem sword, and you never hear anyone talk about how brittle it is (although, admittedly, she doesn't use it as a normal sword...).

[Brahmastra]

Rin's sword isnt actually swung at anything, and Gil's armor is covered in more enchantments than you can shake a stick at (Including protection from petrification)

[Alice]

Actually, the best armor types in video games metal wise (assuming they don't use mythril or oricalchum instead) tend to be platinum every bit as often as gold. ...which is an even softer metal, but eh. :V

Really, in the case of a lot of those games, it's not really like that for a practical reason so much as a convenient shorthand for, "this here sword's even better than that there sword if yer too lazy to look at the stats!" I don't think it happens as often now, and if anything, likely any gold or platinum sword is either just plated with those metals or like Goldie's armor are enchanted to the brim.

Old fashioned RPGs aren't the best reference for that, in other words.

Though in the case of Persona 3? I don't remember there being anything about gem swords like that. Granted, I haven't gotten far into the game, but I would think that even though this is a game where high school kids summon powerful spirits via doing something that suspiciously looks like shooting themselves in the head, that there would be slightly more realism with the weapons at least, material-wise. So there's that to consider. ...People who have gotten further into Persona 3 can correct me on that though. ^^"