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[Arch-Magos Winter]

On the contrary. They totally fucking can. Nosforatu and Daeva are naturally stronger through Vigor, and at higher levels this can mean 15(!!!!!!!) dots in strength.

That's basically hitting with the force of a freaking semi-truck... without adding what happens when you activate Vigor. You can throw fully loaded trailer trucks at people... without activating Vigor. Even some weaker Nosferatu are known to be able to rip the heads off of people like they were teddy bears.

This isn't getting into freaking Caine AKA The guy with the stats which literally say "YOU FUCKING LOSE," and the rest of the oWoD's Antediluvians. Or the individual bloodline disciplines like Dementation or the Anti-Luck one or the blood sorcery the covenants are able to access. Or Count 'Motherfucking' Dracula.

Basically Kindred are some of the nastiest and strongest things in the World of Darkness before you get into stuff like Mages, Demons, and Sin Eaters (Who fucking cheat, all of them)

[Cherry Lover]

I am pretty sure that Rider could do all those things too, actually. And she's pretty weak for a servant.

Also, there is a question about whether a servant can be harmed with a mundane weapon at all, given that it's not being wielded by a spiritual entity. The game is not entirely clear on that.

[Arch-Magos Winter]

Considering in some ways vampires are supernatural and spiritual entities (They can devour SOULS) I'd say that some disciplines do allow them to harm servants. Protean for example, or just through sucking their blood and prana out until they die.

[YOLF]

Magos is blowing it out of proportion a little. But yeah, vampires from WoD can be scary.

And yes, the novel was kind of confusing about that.

The claws of protean are specifically noted to be supernatural, so yes. They should be able to damage Servants.

[Cherry Lover]

Servants don't have blood....

Also, if all-else fails they can go into spiritual mode. I don't think Jack could follow her into that.

[YOLF]

No wait a minute, Servants definitely bleed what are you talking about

Of course, they're still spirits, but when materialized they bleed like everything else that's alive.

[Arch-Magos Winter]

They do. Sorta. Scenes in the VN prove this remember? They can bleed. And even if they don't they can still suck them of prana (vitae is basically the same stuff.)

While he can't, there's stuff that Kindred have that CAN.

Just thank god Jack isn't a Sangiovanni.

[Cherry Lover]

They bleed, they don't have blood, as such. Specifically, they can't bleed to death no matter how much damage they've sustained (although they can die from prana loss).

And, I'm not saying no Kindred could fight Rider, but I would be surprised if there were many that could defeat her.

[Arch-Magos Winter]

Even in that case, congrats. Infinite Vitae factories. And Vitae and prana is practically the same shit.

[YOLF]

When vampires suck blood they're really sucking life force. So theoretically a vampire could suck all mana out of a Servant until it no longer exists I guess? Would have to be an overpowered vampire and a real shit Servant to let that happen though.

[Arch-Magos Winter]

Or a vampire in Hunger Frenzy going apeshit.

It'd probably take a minute or two or so but they could do it.

[Cherry Lover]

Even in that case, congrats. Infinite Vitae factories.

Well, for as long as you can keep hold of them....

And Vitae and prana is practically the same shit.

Yeah, that makes sense. I'd imagine that a servant has quite a lot of it, though....

When vampires suck blood they're really sucking life force. So theoretically a vampire could suck all mana out of a Servant until it no longer exists I guess? Would have to be an overpowered vampire and a real shit Servant to let that happen though.

Well, I guess it would drain them of prana somehow, yes. I suspect, however, that if Sakura were around Rider could replenish her prana at a high enough rate that it wouldn't kill her however long he drank....

[Arch-Magos Winter]

Really, probably not.

You can drain roughly 1 vitae a turn or so. You can drain another 1 through a certain discipline. Also, the loss of this lifeforce would cause injury to servants as they are spiritual beings. So the more the vampire feeds, the harder and harder it gets to slow her down. And once again, there's Protean, specifically a certain power that allows your hands to grow GECKO PADS to assist you in holding and grappling prey. So keeping hold of a Servant theoretically won't be a problem.

Our theoretical vampire with Bloodworking as a discipline as well can then cause an enormous amount of damage within the grapple using his powers, combined with damage during the grapple through the protean power, and then the damage from the fangs.

Then add in Vigor for MORE damage, and then you get Rider both being drained and damaged faster than repair is possible.

[YOLF]

Except you know.

Monstrous Strength. And even without that, Rider could probably push that theoretical kindred away.

[Arch-Magos Winter]

True, but if he gets the drop on her and gets that protean power activated escape for her is practically impossible, especially if he's riding the wave.