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[lantzblades]

The interjection was done in the name of saving a life. The opposite did not occur. As such he did nothing wrong because the choice to save lives is never wrong.

[Arch-Magos Winter]

I'd argue it can be wrong to save someone's life. Say, a serial killers life. Is saving someone who will simply bring harm unto others morally right?  Wouldn't it be better to let this person die or kill him yourself to save others?

But if killing him is wrong, wouldn't that mean that it's also wrong to save any of his future victims because it isn't right to kill the killer now when you have the chance?

[lantzblades]

We have a thing called prison for such things arch. Saving a life is never wrong. Even a bad guys because society has measures to make people pay for their crimes.

[Arch-Magos Winter]

What about if you have no chance of capturing the killer, or you can't hold him? That this is the only time, the only chance you'll have to stop him, and taking him alive, or at all, is impossible? What then Lantz? Isn't killing him still not saving a life? But at the same time, isn't killing him saving lives?

And aren't there crimes that prison simply isn't well, justice for?

[Cherry Lover]

I'd argue it can be wrong to save someone's life. Say, a serial killers life. Is saving someone who will simply bring harm unto others morally right?  Wouldn't it be better to let this person die or kill him yourself to save others?

But if killing him is wrong, wouldn't that mean that it's also wrong to save any of his future victims because it isn't right to kill the killer now when you have the chance?

Whilst I disagree with the assertion that it is always wrong to kill, I do not think it is ever wrong to save a life, no matter what the circumstances. Particularly since it is very rarely as clear-cut as you are making out. People don't usually get the option of saving the life of an immoral serial killer with no possibility of redemption....

It's somewhat ironic that I'm using the argument I usually use to explain why MoS Shirou is a cunt to defend him, but still....

[Aiden]

blah blah blah personal value judgments blah blah

This conversation has once again reached a useless place with no objective answer.

[Alice]

@Mike: I don't think it really counts in this case. Toshi made a really out there leap in logic to jump to the conclusion he did. He didn't save a life, he just insulted a victim, because the assembled group wasn't going to kill MoS Shirou to begin with. Plus there were other ways he could have said it. "Please don't kill him, it's not right," would have worked far better than doing so in a way that slaps the victim in the face. And then make it even worse by turning around and threatening Archer the way that he did, thus making himself look hypocritical in the process.

But yeah, Aiden is right, it is kinda getting circular at this point. We should probably drop it.

[Arch-Magos Winter]

@Mike: I don't think it really counts in this case. Toshi made a really out there leap in logic to jump to the conclusion he did. He didn't save a life, he just insulted a victim, because the assembled group wasn't going to kill him to begin with. Plus there were other ways he could have said it. "Please don't kill him, it's not right," would have worked far better than doing so in a way that slaps the victim in the face. And then make it even worse by turning around and threatening Archer the way that he did, thus making himself look hypocritical in the process.

But yeah, Aiden is right, it is kinda getting circular at this point. We should probably drop it.

We probably should drop it but Alice is right here. It's really startling how freaking little Suetoshi acts like the supposed 2000 year old sage he is.

[Cherry Lover]

I never said Toshi was right to think that he was saving Shirou by doing it (indeed, I recall saying the opposite some time back), I was just saying that that is what he sincerely believed. Making a mistake does not make you a bad person.

[Arch-Magos Winter]

No, but it can make you a hypocrite later on and a total asshole.

[Arch-Magos Winter]

So no post from Rider yet Mike?

[Cherry Lover]

Working on it now.

[Arch-Magos Winter]

Ah, OK.

[Elf]

Still, Rin knows he dislikes the Archer's likely in general. And if push comes to shove she can grab Lancer and the other Archer.

Yeah, I'd grab Lancer and the other Archer too if I was Rin.  Start up my male harem!

Plus Rin can live the fantasy of fucking twins!

Wait . . . I don't think that's what Magos meant.   Damn.

[Alice]

May not be too late, she could always start now.  Get Hakuno too as an added bonus. Would be a tricky harem to control though, all that squabbling between the Archers and Lancer, but it'd be worth it.