Author Topic: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page  (Read 310457 times)

lantzblades

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #1275 on: November 21, 2013, 07:48:50 AM »
It's tall not large, holy water is an example of purification, arguing about belief systems is semantics, she is all the world's evil mot one country therefore multiple sources of purification will work on her. As for what avenger displayed, not translated so I'm not terribly interested in what that says which isn't really relevant since Angra is not avenger. Frankly I would go into the castle but I'm going to describe it later when the scene finishes, or I would have if someone hadn't decided to come bothering me for no real reason.

there is nothing but an empty courtyard, don't like it? Too bad, there's a door but the moment Raul touches it you'll be stuck waiting for my reply. There's a courtyard and a tall but compact building, that's it.

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #1276 on: November 21, 2013, 08:07:19 AM »
Like I said though, even if it does work, I don't think it would be effective enough on its own. Look at what it does to vampires in Buffy for instance, it doesn't kill them for sure, just causes serious injuries. I don't expect it to be much different for Angra.

There's enough of Hollow Ataxia translated for me to have gleaned that much, since I certainly can't read Japanese. Most of the main storyline's been translated. More than enough of it to see how Avenger fights. And while Avenger is indeed a seperate entity from the corrupted grail itself, he does give an idea of what Angra Manyu's abilities would be like as a Servant. In fact, this is exactly what Avenger is. Like, literally.

In terms of Angra Manyu as a separate entity here, technically she shouldn't be able to manifest physical entities outside her host. Well, aside from familiars like the dog monsters and Sakura's shadows anyway.

We saw what happened with Sakura and Irisviel- Angra never formed a separate form from either of them, merely possessed them and carried out its will through them, with its personality being shaped by the one it possesses (Avenger is similar- while how much is the actual young man that was sacrificed and how much is Shirou is debatable, there is some of Shirou's influence there. Also, there's a similar argument with how much was Sakura and how much was just her being corrupted by evil, but let's not start that here). So really, by what we've seen Angra Manyu do in canon, it shouldn't be able to form any physical form outside of Toshi period, whether it be a castle or the form of a girl.   

Yet again, though, Elf's decision here. Ultimately, in an RP such as this one, it's the GM's call on what's acceptable and what's not. ...I'm going to repeat this over and over until it burns into some skulls. :P
« Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 08:11:39 AM by Alice »

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #1277 on: November 21, 2013, 09:07:15 AM »
It's tall not large, holy water is an example of purification, arguing about belief systems is semantics, she is all the world's evil mot one country therefore multiple sources of purification will work on her.

So lets see.

Miko Purification Rituals [No Miko's in Nexus]
Church Executors [None in Nexus...that we know of]
Purifying Weapons [Archers and certain Emiya's]
Shinigami Zanpakutous [there is one Shinigami in Nexus]
Pretty much every weapon from Hellsing that incorporated Blessed Silver


Considering what Angra Manya did in the Nasuverse, it is safe to say that Angra can corrupt other beings that are vulnerable to corruption and may be able to manipulate those who bear some bits of her corruption. Considering that Canon!Shirou was found alive despite being surround by fire started by her power, he would have some of her taint already existing within him and since Sakura had pieces of the corrupted grail that was destroyed in the fourth war placed within her, she too would bear her taint.

In a sense if Lantz wanted to he could with the permission of others manipulate certain characters like puppets due to them bearing her taint and if need be she could 'infect' certain others with that same taint
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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #1278 on: November 21, 2013, 12:17:24 PM »
Considering that Canon!Shirou was found alive despite being surround by fire started by her power, he would have some of her taint already existing within him
dude what

If that was anywhere near true it kind of would have come up in FSN.

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #1279 on: November 21, 2013, 12:22:05 PM »
We saw what happened with Sakura and Irisviel- Angra never formed a separate form from either of them, merely possessed them and carried out its will through them, with its personality being shaped by the one it possesses (Avenger is similar- while how much is the actual young man that was sacrificed and how much is Shirou is debatable, there is some of Shirou's influence there. Also, there's a similar argument with how much was Sakura and how much was just her being corrupted by evil, but let's not start that here). So really, by what we've seen Angra Manyu do in canon, it shouldn't be able to form any physical form outside of Toshi period, whether it be a castle or the form of a girl.   

That's not entirely true. It is true that, in HF and Zero, Angra only acts through proxies, but it's made clear in HF that that is only because it hasn't been "born" yet. The fact that the entire end of HF is based around preventing that birth implies very strongly that AM is capable of manifesting alone, and it seems pretty clear that doing so would be a very bad thing for the world as a whole.

lantzblades

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #1280 on: November 21, 2013, 01:17:43 PM »
Angra is human evil and if thereby immortal as it exists similarly to Alaya with humans as a generating point. She can manifest as a physical entity as that's the basis of the sheet and as for the castle it is the curse, Angra is a living curse and in fan kirei clearly states the curse is so strong that it manifests physically, thus I don't she why the mud can't be used as building materials. Angra has no true form, she's not avenger, she just looks like it.  So as the curse she is aware of the other manifested parts

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #1281 on: November 21, 2013, 05:07:10 PM »
thus I don't she why the mud can't be used as building materials.
Just for the sake of pointing this out:

It's mud. You can't build things with mud. Trust this farmer, he knows.

And even then, if you tried to dry it to make for more valid material, it still wouldn't build. Dirt is terrible to build with, and the best you can do with it as a structure is a pile with a hole in it. Nevertheless, the hole would cave in during the first rain that hits it.

And in Fate/Zero, it sort of sunk into the ground after the fire. So, it's more like a really, really viscous liquid than mud. It just looks like mud. UBW supports this by having Rin wade in it at thigh height: you can't do that with real mud.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 05:26:07 PM by NamesAreHardToComeUpWith »

lantzblades

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #1282 on: November 21, 2013, 05:39:09 PM »
Nevermind, just move on. Talk about something else because it's not really mud and I don't care.

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #1283 on: November 21, 2013, 06:56:36 PM »
thus I don't she why the mud can't be used as building materials.
Just for the sake of pointing this out:

It's mud. You can't build things with mud. Trust this farmer, he knows.

And even then, if you tried to dry it to make for more valid material, it still wouldn't build. Dirt is terrible to build with, and the best you can do with it as a structure is a pile with a hole in it. Nevertheless, the hole would cave in during the first rain that hits it.

And in Fate/Zero, it sort of sunk into the ground after the fire. So, it's more like a really, really viscous liquid than mud. It just looks like mud. UBW supports this by having Rin wade in it at thigh height: you can't do that with real mud.
Depends really. In the American Southwest for example, many tribes did make mud bricks - Adobe. However, the process takes time and really is only useful in dry climates with the right type of soil.

AM's mud fits neither of those qualities. And lantz just said it isn't mud, so how the fuck do you build a castle out of syrup then?

It's tall not large, holy water is an example of purification, arguing about belief systems is semantics, she is all the world's evil mot one country therefore multiple sources of purification will work on her. As for what avenger displayed, not translated so I'm not terribly interested in what that says which isn't really relevant since Angra is not avenger. Frankly I would go into the castle but I'm going to describe it later when the scene finishes, or I would have if someone hadn't decided to come bothering me for no real reason.

there is nothing but an empty courtyard, don't like it? Too bad, there's a door but the moment Raul touches it you'll be stuck waiting for my reply. There's a courtyard and a tall but compact building, that's it.

OK, you do know this makes her practically invincible right? To get rid of her would take millions of gallons of holy water, and we don't have millions of gallons of holy water, or the ability to drench a skyscraper sized mass with it. And even if we did, that'd only effect the outer layer of bricks.

Now, to compound this issue, despite being restricted to Satoshi's body for the most part, AM's somehow manifesting as a female for some reason, and also as a castle.

Basically none of this makes sense in the context of the Nasuverse. If Angra IS manifesting as a full on entity, then he needs to be immediately destroyed before the entire nexus is. And he has to be manifested fully now, otherwise this shit goes into a black hole of not making sense, because it doesn't make sense already.

And then there's the problem that even if we COULD, Lantz would refuse to let us do so.

Basically all his characters weaknesses are less weaknesses and more piddling annoyances that are easily circumvented.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 07:45:27 PM by Arch-Magos Winter »

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #1284 on: November 21, 2013, 07:42:59 PM »
how the fuck do you build a castle out of syrup then?
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lantzblades

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #1285 on: November 21, 2013, 09:22:30 PM »
I'd bother explaining the hows and whys but I honestly think there's no point in doing so given the previous statements.

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #1286 on: November 21, 2013, 09:25:17 PM »
Actually I've found a way to make a castle made of maple syrup, you're all good on that front.

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lantzblades

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #1287 on: November 21, 2013, 09:29:55 PM »
It's magic

Arch-Magos Winter

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #1288 on: November 21, 2013, 09:54:36 PM »
Is it just me or is Kiyoshi practically begging to be haunted?

I'd bother explaining the hows and whys but I honestly think there's no point in doing so given the previous statements.
No, you NEED to explain why at this point. You honestly do because structurally there's no way in hell a building like you're saying exists would even be capable of holding up its own weight in the winds.

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #1289 on: November 21, 2013, 10:02:04 PM »
Magos, you do know that if Lawrence does anything to Kiyoshi then Sakura will make sure he pays dearly for it, regardless of how strong he is...?

And, frankly, Kiyoshi is just being an eleven-year-old kid. Your character, on the other hand, is being a jackass. He attempted to murder someone in cold blood, Kiyoshi saved that person and yet Lawrence is claiming he did something wrong. If he had not acted then Connor would be dead. Nothing Lawrence says can change that.

Frankly, Lawrence is just a petty jerk who can't deal with his own mistakes.

Also, what Kiyoshi did wasn't just "luck". If you hit the gun in a particular direction then it is going to go in that direction. And, he had no real alternative but to act in that way. He couldn't have killed Lawrence with one swing and even if he could he'd have had time to fire the gun. Which could then definitely have gone absolutely anywhere.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 10:07:09 PM by Cherry Lover »