Author Topic: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page  (Read 310330 times)

Cherry Lover

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #1485 on: December 01, 2013, 10:10:25 PM »
You are making the mistake of assuming that logic works here.

Well, I was assuming Axe Cop would follow the law. Some laws (e.g. against murder) can be extrapolated, but something like a speed limit doesn't really make sense in the absense of a government to implement it. And I certainly don't see any evidence of the Nexus having a government....

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Besides, there are speed limit signs on the road, because I say so and no one cares enough to dispute it.

(watch elf make me eat my words)

Well, Magos might care, if he doesn't particularly want to have to fight you or get arrested....

Also, I do kind-of care, because it seems unrealistic that there would be speed limits and no apparent government to implement them. Someone has to decree that these limits exist and what they are, after all....

The Man With All The Cute Boats

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #1486 on: December 01, 2013, 10:20:52 PM »
Well, I was assuming Axe Cop would follow the law. Some laws (e.g. against murder) can be extrapolated, but something like a speed limit doesn't really make sense in the absense of a government to implement it. And I certainly don't see any evidence of the Nexus having a government....

There has been a lot of mention of police and what's left of them since I started playing (didn't read the rest lol) coming from everyone in the crew, including those who haven't met the police squad yet, and police officers are government employed.

So there must have been a government at some point. That has to count for something.

Cherry Lover

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #1487 on: December 01, 2013, 10:29:48 PM »
Well, it is possible to have a police force without a government. Hell, that's what Axe Cop and friends are doing right now. They might not have any official authority but, then, the government only has authority because people believe it does, so why should police be any different?

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #1488 on: December 01, 2013, 10:43:06 PM »
Yes, but Axe Cop & friends don't give a shit about money, all for different reasons. Normal police officers need money to buy food and live and whatnot, hence the fact the government "employs" them.

Unless Nexus had some communist police system or something to pay its officers.

Bloble

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #1489 on: December 01, 2013, 10:43:28 PM »
Ah, I just got it. There is a speed limit and Lawrence was speeding because Axe Cop is the President of the World and he says so.

Cherry Lover

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #1490 on: December 01, 2013, 10:53:00 PM »
Yes, but Axe Cop & friends don't give a shit about money, all for different reasons. Normal police officers need money to buy food and live and whatnot, hence the fact the government "employs" them.

Unless Nexus had some communist police system or something to pay its officers.

Well, it certainly doesn't seem to have a tax system as far as I can tell, or a particularly competent police force. I'm not sure how the former police force were paid (I'm not sure Elf even intended there to be a police force when she designed the setting), but there is no indication of there being a government to do so. It's possible they were funded by donations, like a charity, or any number of other things (including things that would usually be illegal).

I guess we need Elf to decree if the Nexus does have a government (albeit presumably a weak one) to define speed limits and the like....

Ah, I just got it. There is a speed limit and Lawrence was speeding because Axe Cop is the President of the World and he says so.

Well, it works when the Mayor of New York says it, and I don't see any fundamental reason why he has any more right to say that than Axe Cop does (yes, I'm aware he's elected, but plenty of rulers are not)....

I would say that is a somewhat Chaotic viewpoint to take, though, so I doubt it makes sense when applied to Axe Cop....

Bloble

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #1491 on: December 01, 2013, 10:55:24 PM »
I'd argue that it isn't. Axe Cop is meant to keep the peace. Speeding is something that endangers people. Based on the urban setting, Axe Cop decreed a speed limit and anyone violating it is causing danger to innocents. This is not in violation of any moral code, and in fact only reinforces Axe Cop's belief system. Otherwise, any King who creates laws would be Chaotic.

Cherry Lover

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #1492 on: December 01, 2013, 11:02:26 PM »
I'd argue that it isn't. Axe Cop is meant to keep the peace. Speeding is something that endangers people. Based on the urban setting, Axe Cop decreed a speed limit and anyone violating it is causing danger to innocents. This is not in violation of any moral code, and in fact only reinforces Axe Cop's belief system. Otherwise, any King who creates laws would be Chaotic.

Isn't it a fundamental requirement of the law that it be publicised prior to penalising people for breaking it? Especially in the case of laws that are somewhat arbitrary in nature (things like which side of the road you drive on, how fast you can drive etc.). The speed limit in a city in Japan might not be the same as the speed limit in the US or Britain. And nor is it even the same everywhere in the city.

Also, speeding can endanger people, but it doesn't always do so. It depends on the circumstances. Rider, for example, can probably safely ride a motorbike on a busy street at well over 100 MPH, because her reactions are good enough that she can avoid any danger.

As for the "King" example, the fundamental difference is that a King considers himself to be a legitimate authority with the legal right to make laws. As a Police Officer, Axe Cop does not have that right, and it would take a hell of a lot of dubious mental gymnastics to justify taking it, particularly in the case of something ill-defined like speeding laws.

What you're suggesting is more like the King's advisor making up laws on the King's behalf in explicit contradiction to the King's desires because the King is too incompetent to do so himself. Perfectly sensible, perhaps, but not really Lawful.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2013, 11:04:48 PM by Cherry Lover »

Bloble

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #1493 on: December 01, 2013, 11:05:42 PM »
dammit mike I am not writing a legitimate argument for a joke character

Okay, how about this: Axe Cop decided Lawrence was speeding because his car was going waaaaay too fast to be reasonably safe anywhere.

Cherry Lover

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #1494 on: December 01, 2013, 11:10:19 PM »
dammit mike I am not writing a legitimate argument for a joke character

Lol, I understand. I guess that he's having to be more serious here than he usually would be....

The worst that happens here is that you can't arrest Lawrence, though, which I don't think is that big a deal. The guy is not a normal human, he doesn't really follow normal human rules.

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Okay, how about this: Axe Cop decided Lawrence was speeding because his car was going waaaaay too fast to be reasonably safe anywhere.

Again, that seems logical but not really lawful. If someone does something horrendously wrong but some legal technicality or oversight means it's not criminal then the police can't just arrest them anyway on the grounds that it was clearly wrong.

Situations like that are where people like Forest come in (in this world, anyway)....
« Last Edit: December 01, 2013, 11:12:10 PM by Cherry Lover »

Bloble

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #1495 on: December 01, 2013, 11:18:17 PM »
Hm.... how about if I make Axe Cop Chaotic Lawful Good?

Cherry Lover

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #1496 on: December 01, 2013, 11:20:14 PM »
Heh, lol.

Well, I guess how he acts is up to you, in the end.

Daiki

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #1497 on: December 01, 2013, 11:21:41 PM »
Let him play like he wants. You're arguing over a minor detail.





Cherry Lover

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #1498 on: December 01, 2013, 11:52:22 PM »
I never said he couldn't play as he wants.

Bloble

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #1499 on: December 02, 2013, 12:22:22 AM »
Arguing over inconsequential details is the pinnacle of gentlemanly sport.