Author Topic: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page  (Read 310269 times)

Bloble

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #2070 on: December 11, 2013, 10:38:52 PM »
You're not the one who decides who is OP, Mike. Neither are we, but we're certainly going to keep voicing our opinions. And no, your characters getting arrested is in no way bad for the RP. It's only bad for you, since to you the police are the equivalent of abusive shitheads and you refuse to see them as anything but. There's also nothing keeping your characters from breaking the law. Just know that if you do, and the Cops hear about it, they'll be after you like they're supposed to. So really, this is another exercise in realism. Actions have consequences, especially illegal ones.

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #2071 on: December 11, 2013, 10:40:45 PM »
Having police enforce their will on the RP is definitely a bad thing for the RP. Of course actions have consequences, but those consequences should be reasonable and something we can deal with, not a super-powered police force that we cannot possibly avoid.

And, frankly, whilst I do indeed not decide what is OP, it is blindingly obvious that if someone is OP and someone else is stronger than them, then that someone else is also OP.

Also, if we were interested in realism then we wouldn't have characters like Forest and Rider. Real-life laws don't make sense when you're dealing with supernatural beings....
« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 10:43:04 PM by Cherry Lover »

Bloble

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #2072 on: December 11, 2013, 10:50:58 PM »
It says something to me when you think following the law is unreasonable.

Mike, you're biased. You hate laws and Lawful stuff so of course you think it's the worst. Well too bad. Not everyone can be a nice Chaotic chuckle-fuck and prance around kicking the hordes of endless evil vampires and having sex with other similarly Chaotic free spirits while waxing poetic about how amazing their family is and how perfect their mom and dad are and how they belong with each other forever and ever. The only one who thinks the police characters are bad is you, and maybe lantz now that Inferno Cop's showed up to shit on his magic castle. But at least lantz is dealing with the police instead of getting angry OOC and complaining about it.

And it's a good thing we have made up laws to deal with made up things, isn't it?
« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 10:52:05 PM by Bloble »

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #2073 on: December 11, 2013, 10:52:02 PM »
Having police enforce their will on the RP is definitely a bad thing for the RP. Of course actions have consequences, but those consequences should be reasonable and something we can deal with, not a super-powered police force that we cannot possibly avoid.

And, frankly, whilst I do indeed not decide what is OP, it is blindingly obvious that if someone is OP and someone else is stronger than them, then that someone else is also OP.

Also, if we were interested in realism then we wouldn't have characters like Forest and Rider. Real-life laws don't make sense when you're dealing with supernatural beings....
Oh really?

Do you know what the greatest enemy of Vampires in the World of Darkness is? It's the cops! Murder is investigated, and so is corruption and black mail, vampiric go to's for upholding their veil of secrecy. Cops are also very likely to go Hunter, and use police resources to hunt down supernatural offenders if they can. Hell, the FBI has a unit, VASCU, dedicated to bringing supernatural serial killers to justice. And they have a rather decent success rate. They bring Werewolves (Supernatural killing machines), Mages (Reality Altering dicks), Slashers (Jason on Steroids), Changelings, Fey, Spirits, and more to justice. And keep them in custody.

Basically you're full of shit.

Cherry Lover

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #2074 on: December 11, 2013, 10:54:08 PM »
It says something to me when you think following the law is unreasonable.

Mike, you're biased. You hate laws and Lawful stuff so of course you think it's the worst. Well too bad. Not everyone can be a nice Chaotic chuckle-fuck and prance around kicking the hordes of endless evil vampires and having sex with other similarly Chaotic free spirits while waxing poetic about how amazing their family is and how perfect their mom and dad are and how they belong with each other forever and ever. The only one who thinks the police characters are bad is you, and maybe lantz now that Inferno Cop's showed up to shit on his magic castle. But at least lantz is dealing with the police instead of getting angry OOC and complaining about it.

And it's a good thing we have made up laws to deal with made up things, isn't it?

Being forced to follow the law in an RP like this is absolutely unreasonable. It makes no damn sense to have Rider forced to drive at 30 MPH, or for them to be made to avoid killing villains unless the police tell them to.

And, the problem is that your made-up laws are way too damn strict, and massively limit what everyone can do in the RP.

Having police characters is fine, having police characters that are more powerful than everyone else really isn't.

Having police enforce their will on the RP is definitely a bad thing for the RP. Of course actions have consequences, but those consequences should be reasonable and something we can deal with, not a super-powered police force that we cannot possibly avoid.

And, frankly, whilst I do indeed not decide what is OP, it is blindingly obvious that if someone is OP and someone else is stronger than them, then that someone else is also OP.

Also, if we were interested in realism then we wouldn't have characters like Forest and Rider. Real-life laws don't make sense when you're dealing with supernatural beings....
Oh really?

Do you know what the greatest enemy of Vampires in the World of Darkness is? It's the cops! Murder is investigated, and so is corruption and black mail, vampiric go to's for upholding their veil of secrecy. Cops are also very likely to go Hunter, and use police resources to hunt down supernatural offenders if they can. Hell, the FBI has a unit, VASCU, dedicated to bringing supernatural serial killers to justice. And they have a rather decent success rate. They bring Werewolves (Supernatural killing machines), Mages (Reality Altering dicks), Slashers (Jason on Steroids), Changelings, Fey, Spirits, and more to justice. And keep them in custody.

Basically you're full of shit.

The thing is, though, this is not the same thing. What he's saying is that the heroes should be limited to only using lawful methods to act, and anyone breaking that will be taken out by a super-powered really OP police force. I don't think that's a good thing at all.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 10:56:10 PM by Cherry Lover »

Bloble

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #2075 on: December 11, 2013, 10:58:18 PM »
The only laws I've even mentioned are either real life laws about speeding (which Rider could get around by running since surprise, there's no law about that), the law that lets me enter a building if I know there's a criminal inside, and the one about not releasing city-wide waves of super ghostly energy without a license, because it gets tiring if you have super powered ghosts doing that every five minutes while normal citizens are trying to sleep. So no, I haven't been strict at all.

EDIT: And for the last time: The police are not OP. Only you think they are.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 10:59:19 PM by Bloble »

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #2076 on: December 11, 2013, 11:01:25 PM »
For the record, we're not in Satoshi's house. We're in the courtyard. There is specifically one knight nearby, and Rider is still futzing about inside IIRC.

We're not in his bastion of power, we're about twenty feet from it, and he is currently alone.

Saying "Inferno Cop can't beat him unless he is OP" in this situation is a tad bit on the unreasonable side.

And if the Police just futzes around being weak fucks incapable of fighting criminals and gets condemned for even trying OOC, then what the fuck are we even doing. Mite as well go around taking shits in people's cereal and call it police action for how much of a point we have in the RP.

Hey Magos, is the next WoD session this week or next week? You said two weeks about something, but is that "two weeks' break" or "next session in two weeks?"

Arch-Magos Winter

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #2077 on: December 11, 2013, 11:07:36 PM »
Being forced to follow the law in an RP like this is absolutely unreasonable. It makes no damn sense to have Rider forced to drive at 30 MPH, or for them to be made to avoid killing villains unless the police tell them to.

And, the problem is that your made-up laws are way too damn strict, and massively limit what everyone can do in the RP.

Having police characters is fine, having police characters that are more powerful than everyone else really isn't.

The thing is, though, this is not the same thing. What he's saying is that the heroes should be limited to only using lawful methods to act, and anyone breaking that will be taken out by a super-powered really OP police force. I don't think that's a good thing at all.
Oh, no, they can still do this. They can still speed, kill people, and all that good jazz.  They don't HAVE to follow the law. They can always break it, and there are of course some murders and shit the cops can't cover (See vampire killings, werewolves etc.)

And also Satoshi DID BREAK THE FUCKING LAW HARDCORE. HE COMMITTED GRAND THEFT! He also violated zoning, building code, and property laws, homeowners association regulations, and much much more! These aren't made up laws. These are actual things. He's a criminal on the state and local level, if not federal.

Face it Mike, this is something that cops would respond to.

And you aren't restricted to acting chaotically, but you have to acknowledge that you'll need to be somewhat smart about it. IE you can shoot the bad guy, but you'd better make sure that you're careful with the brass. And you might need to dispose of the body.

Also, next Sunday. Because my final is on monday.

Cherry Lover

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #2078 on: December 11, 2013, 11:15:26 PM »
The only laws I've even mentioned are either real life laws about speeding (which Rider could get around by running since surprise, there's no law about that), the law that lets me enter a building if I know there's a criminal inside, and the one about not releasing city-wide waves of super ghostly energy without a license, because it gets tiring if you have super powered ghosts doing that every five minutes while normal citizens are trying to sleep. So no, I haven't been strict at all.

She shouldn't have to run in order to get around the law, though, and nor would she.

Quote
EDIT: And for the last time: The police are not OP. Only you think they are.

Well, the way you're making it out that they could easily take Satoshi makes it sound like they are.

For the record, we're not in Satoshi's house. We're in the courtyard. There is specifically one knight nearby, and Rider is still futzing about inside IIRC.

We're not in his bastion of power, we're about twenty feet from it, and he is currently alone.

Saying "Inferno Cop can't beat him unless he is OP" in this situation is a tad bit on the unreasonable side.

Well, if Inferno Cop can beat Satoshi without him having the chance to call for help or get back into the castle then he's OP, yeah. Being able to win the fight, sure, but being able to prevent there even being a fight with someone of Satoshi's level would definitely make him OP.

Quote
And if the Police just futzes around being weak fucks incapable of fighting criminals and gets condemned for even trying OOC, then what the fuck are we even doing. Mite as well go around taking shits in people's cereal and call it police action for how much of a point we have in the RP.

Well, dealing with actual bad guys rather than building permit violations and speeding offences....

But, no, there's nothing wrong with attempting to enforce the law, I'm just rather worried about their power. The police generally have the advantage of authority and being trusted by most citizens (even Chaotic people won't usually fight the police unless the police come after them directly or are being abusive), if you make them more powerful than everyone else as well then it does limit the ability of everyone who isn't in the police force to do anything beyond sitting there and talking.

Being forced to follow the law in an RP like this is absolutely unreasonable. It makes no damn sense to have Rider forced to drive at 30 MPH, or for them to be made to avoid killing villains unless the police tell them to.

And, the problem is that your made-up laws are way too damn strict, and massively limit what everyone can do in the RP.

Having police characters is fine, having police characters that are more powerful than everyone else really isn't.

The thing is, though, this is not the same thing. What he's saying is that the heroes should be limited to only using lawful methods to act, and anyone breaking that will be taken out by a super-powered really OP police force. I don't think that's a good thing at all.
Oh, no, they can still do this. They can still speed, kill people, and all that good jazz.  They don't HAVE to follow the law. They can always break it, and there are of course some murders and shit the cops can't cover (See vampire killings, werewolves etc.)

Yes, but an RP version of Porridge isn't going to be much fun to play....

Quote
And also Satoshi DID BREAK THE FUCKING LAW HARDCORE. HE COMMITTED GRAND THEFT! He also violated zoning, building code, and property laws, homeowners association regulations, and much much more! These aren't made up laws. These are actual things. He's a criminal on the state and local level, if not federal.

Face it Mike, this is something that cops would respond to.

Yeah, sure, I don't deny that.

The issue is more that they are really powerful as far as I can tell. Maybe I am just getting the wrong impression, but the way they're being talked about it sounds like they could annihilate Satoshi, and he is one of the most powerful characters in the RP at the moment.

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And you aren't restricted to acting chaotically, but you have to acknowledge that you'll need to be somewhat smart about it. IE you can shoot the bad guy, but you'd better make sure that you're careful with the brass. And you might need to dispose of the body.

The thing is, though, if you're in the middle of a battle to save the city you don't have time to worry about crap like that.

Although, to be fair, Sakura and family are used to that. Whilst they can use mind-alteration to remove memories of an event, it is generally much easier to prevent the event being witnessed in the first place. The way they cover it up is different but the principle is the same.

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #2079 on: December 11, 2013, 11:24:32 PM »
Well, the way you're making it out that they could easily take Satoshi makes it sound like they are.


Well, if Inferno Cop can beat Satoshi without him having the chance to call for help or get back into the castle then he's OP, yeah. Being able to win the fight, sure, but being able to prevent there even being a fight with someone of Satoshi's level would definitely make him OP.

Well, dealing with actual bad guys rather than building permit violations and speeding offences....

But, no, there's nothing wrong with attempting to enforce the law, I'm just rather worried about their power. The police generally have the advantage of authority and being trusted by most citizens (even Chaotic people won't usually fight the police unless the police come after them directly or are being abusive), if you make them more powerful than everyone else as well then it does limit the ability of everyone who isn't in the police force to do anything beyond sitting there and talking.

Yeah, sure, I don't deny that.

The issue is more that they are really powerful as far as I can tell. Maybe I am just getting the wrong impression, but the way they're being talked about it sounds like they could annihilate Satoshi, and he is one of the most powerful characters in the RP at the moment.

The thing is, though, if you're in the middle of a battle to save the city you don't have time to worry about crap like that.

Although, to be fair, Sakura and family are used to that. Whilst they can use mind-alteration to remove memories of an event, it is generally much easier to prevent the event being witnessed in the first place. The way they cover it up is different but the principle is the same.
No, they can't easily do it as Suetoshi is OP as fuck, and I'm sure Lantz will just give him a new power. Inferno Cop could just punch him hard enough to knock him out though if he resists arrest. Or call in back up - and not everything Cops do is hunting down criminals. Most calls they get are about stupid shit, and they still have to answer it. The Castle is obviously breaking a law and is a pretty damn open and shut case. Dealing with it now would be easier.

And you seem to also be implying the police are omnipresent and omnipotent. They aren't. There's still plenty of room for characters to do shit. You're just whining because now you can't go on a power trip with them. The Don is currently above the law, why not start to try and bring him down?

Also, fucking with minds is in no way good. At all. That's tantamount to rape. So you're saying that Sakura's family commits rape on a regular basis? I should have known...

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #2080 on: December 11, 2013, 11:30:02 PM »
No, they can't easily do it as Suetoshi is OP as fuck, and I'm sure Lantz will just give him a new power. Inferno Cop could just punch him hard enough to knock him out though if he resists arrest. Or call in back up - and not everything Cops do is hunting down criminals. Most calls they get are about stupid shit, and they still have to answer it. The Castle is obviously breaking a law and is a pretty damn open and shut case. Dealing with it now would be easier.

OK, what? So, Satoshi is OP as fuck because an apparently not-OP character can't easily arrest him?

That makes no fucking sense whatsoever unless you're claiming they are OP theirselves.

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And you seem to also be implying the police are omnipresent and omnipotent. They aren't. There's still plenty of room for characters to do shit. You're just whining because now you can't go on a power trip with them. The Don is currently above the law, why not start to try and bring him down?

It's not a "power trip", it's being expected to follow arbitrary and pointless laws.

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Also, fucking with minds is in no way good. At all. That's tantamount to rape. So you're saying that Sakura's family commits rape on a regular basis? I should have known...

Have you actually read FSN...?

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #2081 on: December 11, 2013, 11:33:48 PM »
1) I never said inferno cop had to believe Satoshi so Arch is a liar.

2) Satoshi has attacked no one unless attacked (this refers to physical altercations)

3) it is possible (or it would be if not for Angra's taint) very much so for inferno cop to defeat Satoshi under normal circumstances because Satoshi has a personal weakness about fighting fairly. Of course he secluded himself to avoid fighting in his current state (in which he's more of a sledge hammer) to protect innocent people.

4) Satoshi is strong but he can be beaten, of course since I'm clearly being targeted I'm not going to reveal how to defeat his numerous powers.

5) jail only works if character development can happen (which is why I strongly objected to bottling Angra

6) this is something that has bugged me for a while. How is it that Raul is a demon who is oblivious to the evil emanating from the castle?

Arch-Magos Winter

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #2082 on: December 11, 2013, 11:34:42 PM »
OK, what? So, Satoshi is OP as fuck because an apparently not-OP character can't easily arrest him?

That makes no fucking sense whatsoever unless you're claiming they are OP theirselves.
It's not a "power trip", it's being expected to follow arbitrary and pointless laws.

Have you actually read FSN...?
No, I'm pointing out that it wouldn't be easy to arrest him even if they were OP. Because Lantz would refuse to allow Suetoshi to be arrested. Like he is now. It won't be easy for them to arrest them, but it shouldn't be impossible either, like you seem to be implying they are.

And they aren't arbitrary or pointless laws; a majority of laws are put in place to protect the general populace.

And yes I HAVE read FSN and the mindmemory thing is treated as being rather sketchy as shit. Which it should be. Fucking with someone's mind is akin to overwriting bits of who they are. It's not a power to pull out lightly, if at all. You're basically altering who they are.

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #2083 on: December 11, 2013, 11:35:27 PM »
I find it funny that Mike brought up Inferno Cop's powerlevel as a cop and status as a joke character and how him beating up Satoshi (who is high on the nasuverse powerscale, I guess) would make him OP despite his universe's powerscale being far different and with him on top rather like some other characters in the RP like especially the bleach crowd, and yet...

We're not even fighting. The fact Inferno Cop is the strongest idiot (emphasis on this word) in nexus city and could wreck everyone if he grew a brain is not in play right now, and even if it is it's only on a hypothetical level. We haven't escalated to violence, Lantz hasn't made Satoshi start resisting arrest, Inferno Cop hasn't even brought up arrest, and Inferno Cop isn't going to shoot up everything nearby and kill everyone like he has in the past because a T-shirt salesman told him his shirts were "limitied edition".

This entire argument is jumping the gun like crazy.

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #2084 on: December 11, 2013, 11:36:57 PM »
1) I never said inferno cop had to believe Satoshi so Arch is a liar.

6) this is something that has bugged me for a while. How is it that Raul is a demon who is oblivious to the evil emanating from the castle?
You acted in thread and blatantly said 'Oh he'll believe me, because he's a retard.'

As for 6... did you even READ his profile?