Dark Side of the Moon
Type Moon => Fanfiction => Lantz's fics => Topic started by: lantzblades on April 14, 2013, 01:44:58 AM
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This is a big ol thread for me to answer questions, develop ideas, take writing requests and muse on not only my fanfiction but fanfiction in general. basically a condensed thread for all my random and not so random activity. for the moment i'mma pitch a few ideas here and open the floor to questions.
first is a cross over with Digimon, in so much as it's an AU continuity, no magic, fate characters are kids, get digimon, full use of all the canon digimon stuff and the pseudo canon because i've played all the games watched the shows (excluding season 5) and read the outside materials. So if any of you guys out there are metal heads and interested in helping this idea form please speak up.
second is a cross over with the castlevania series, dracula, in this case crimsonmoon in the castle with the fate and tsuki characters in similar positions to the belmonts soma cruz etcetera.
third is a crossover with the smt series, haven't decided if it should be in line with the sub series of smt like raidou's games and persona or along the line of the traditional smt games like strange journey and nocturne
now any questions?
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Demon's Run when a good man goes to war, good doctor who episode, great example of why power levels are meaningless.
when the hero stands up and throws out his niceties he becomes unbeatable. good and evil characters are separated but their humanity and the level of which they follow the humanizing path. a power level is a subject number applied based on factors but the intangibles of the will and soul of a character make it useless. the truth is the more evil a character is the weaker they are overall. the only exception is when the story's point is bleak example.
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OK, what? I don't have a clue what you're saying....
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what part are you confused about?
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what part are you confused about?
All of it. I don't even know what it's aimed at doing....
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it is a musing on fanfiction and particularly fate.
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it is a musing on fanfiction and particularly fate.
I see....
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anyways, I got two ideas from the pictures in the CBC.
the first is a full service maid cafe staffed by tsukihime, fate and fate extra characters
the second is a fantasy adventure lemon with the characters as angel's demons, and other fantasy creatures and such
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anyways, I got two ideas from the pictures in the CBC.
the first is a full service maid cafe staffed by tsukihime, fate and fate extra characters
the second is a fantasy adventure lemon with the characters as angel's demons, and other fantasy creatures and such
Hmm, these sound interesting, particularly the second. What do you have in mind?
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the first is a series of sex scenes with different girls
the second would be shirou adventuring around a fantasy knights and dragons type place with other characters as different creatures
obviously sakura would be a demon, logically rin as well. the others i dunno about.
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the first is a series of sex scenes with different girls
Hmm, OK.
Sounds interesting, although I don't have anything to add yet.
the second would be shirou adventuring around a fantasy knights and dragons type place with other characters as different creatures
obviously sakura would be a demon, logically rin as well. the others i dunno about.
Again, sounds interesting, although I'm trying to work out how to do the sex here....
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Hmm, OK.
Sounds interesting, although I don't have anything to add yet.
need to figure out the character's apart from Ciel and sakura that are involved.
I'm trying to work out how to do the sex here....
what?
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Hmm, OK.
Sounds interesting, although I don't have anything to add yet.
need to figure out the character's apart from Ciel and sakura that are involved.
Hmm, I see.
Well, aside from picking Rider, I'm not sure....
I'm trying to work out how to do the sex here....
what?
Well, what it will be like. Also, how to add BDSM to it :P
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decent pick
as for the fantasy, bdsm is contextual
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decent pick
Well, yeah.
as for the fantasy, bdsm is contextual
What?
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contextual, which means it is situational, it should be worked into a setting piece, see hell, or a dungeon etcetera.
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contextual, which means it is situational, it should be worked into a setting piece, see hell, or a dungeon etcetera.
Well, yeah, that makes sense, the question is what situation (particularly with the girl getting dommed)....
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Depends on who you want her dommed by, also what a character is, elf, monster demon etcetera
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Depends on who you want her dommed by, also what a character is, elf, monster demon etcetera
Well, Sakura is the most immediately obvious choice for victim, although I guess having her as a dom would also be fun....
Presumably Rider is a monster....
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Yes rider is a monster but it's more like monster girls than straight up monster
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Yes rider is a monster but it's more like monster girls than straight up monster
Well, yeah, of course.
Also, what about the Sakura thing?
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Sakura is a succubi so being demon summoned for that kind of thing is possible
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Sakura is a succubi so being demon summoned for that kind of thing is possible
Hmm, I see, so someone would summon her for the purpose of having BDSM sex with her? Also, how would hell fit into this?
We need more of a world design before I can really think up scenes, honestly.
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It's a high fantasy demons come from hell, elves from the forest and so on
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It's a high fantasy demons come from hell, elves from the forest and so on
Yeah, that makes sense, I'm just asking whether they do stuff in hell....
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They can but being summoned from hell usually implies elsewhere
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They can but being summoned from hell usually implies elsewhere
Well, yes, lol.
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Then have fun with it
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Then have fun with it
Well, yeah, true.
Although, honestly, at the moment all I've got is the idea of Rider and Caster regularly summoning Sakura for BDSM games. She gets the essense she needs, they get to torture a beautiful young girl. Rider would likely become quite attached to her little succubus, though....
The only other thing I thought of was a vague concept of Caster imprisoning Sakura (i.e. preventing her from leaving), getting captured and ending up in hell being punished.
Like I said before, we really need more details about the setting etc. before I can think of anything beyond the obvious.
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well that's a thought but there's plenty better ways to do that.
keep in mind it's a development story issue, they won't just forget abuse.
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well that's a thought but there's plenty better ways to do that.
To do what?
keep in mind it's a development story issue, they won't just forget abuse.
Well, of course, but in Rider's case it wouldn't be malicious in intent.
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do what you posted
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do what you posted
What aspect of it?
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the whole thing
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the whole thing
OK, you're not making sense here. You said, in reply to what I posted that there are better ways of achieving it and, then, when I ask "achieving what?", you say "what you just posted". That's entirely circular.
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it's not, it's saying everything you mention in your post can be done better.
in any case if rider and caster are seperate then shirou has to run across and spare sakura twice. a bit difficult.
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it's not, it's saying everything you mention in your post can be done better.
Well, OK, then explain how....
in any case if rider and caster are seperate then shirou has to run across and spare sakura twice. a bit difficult.
Well, no, because, as I said, Rider isn't nasty. She gives Sakura something she wants and Sakura comes willingly. So, no rescue is needed.
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well you need to set up a back story for caster first
as for rider ok, still there needs to be a lead up, monsters wouldn't typically summon a devil.
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well you need to set up a back story for caster first
What do you mean?
as for rider ok, still there needs to be a lead up, monsters wouldn't typically summon a devil.
Well, OK, fair enough.
More details on the setting would be helpful....
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why she would summon a demon, who she is etcetera
Well, OK, fair enough.
More details on the setting would be helpful....
it's a typical high fantasy setting, there's nothing beyond what we've set up.
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why she would summon a demon, who she is etcetera
Well, OK, fair enough.
More details on the setting would be helpful....
it's a typical high fantasy setting, there's nothing beyond what we've set up.
Yeah, that's not helpful in terms of setting up Rider to summon Sakura. I don't even know what sort of monster she is....
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Rider would be herself medusa
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Rider would be herself medusa
Well, yes, I guess that was obvious....
Why wouldn't she summon a succubus, though? I mean, monsters get horny too....
As for what she uses to summon Sakura, I guess that it makes sense that, if she needs to sacrifice someone as an offering for Sakura to come, she could sacrifice people who came to her island to kill her and got captured. I mean, if they came to kill her, and she intends to kill them anyway, why not use them to summon a Succubus? Also, I intended for her to become friends with Sakura (because, despite her interest in BDSM, she's not nasty, and they rather enjoy each other's company), which would mean that Sakura would happily pop over for a visit without needing a sacrifice.
As for Caster, I would say that she should summon Sakura using some poor guy/girl as a sacrifice, and then imprison her as a sex slave, because she likes the idea of having someone to torture who is immortal and, thus, who she can do anything she likes with. After torturing her for a while (and feeding her captured people to sustain her), Shirou shows up (having gone looking for the missing people) and frees Sakura. Sakura then befriends him, and he starts trying to persuade her not to kill people.
Also, afterwards, Caster would be dragged off to hell and tortured by Sakura and Rin.
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Well, I've had some more thoughts on Rider's relationship to Sakura, and on what would happen with Caster.
Firstly, with regards to Rider, I'd say that Sakura would be friends with her and accept her summonings because she actually knows how to make Sakura feel good (plus, she gives Sakura anyone she needs to kill). I mean, your average summoner is likely to be a complete asshole (because the willingness to sacrifice a human life just to get laid is rather incompatible with anything else), which means that they're likely to see Sakura as nothing more than a fuck-toy, and have sex with her without regard for her enjoyment. Which, for a succubus (who is going to have a very high sex drive), isn't much fun. Rider, on the other hand, would actually treat Sakura as a partner rather than a sex toy, because she's actually a reasonably nice person, and she also knows that having a friendly succubus you can call on whenever you like does wonders for your sex life. OK, so she might be rather rough with Sakura, but she also gives her mind-blowing orgasms, and Sakura would happily meet up with her for that reason (and, also, for the companionship, because Rider would see her as a friend, not just someone to fuck).
As for Caster, I think she should have a personal grudge against either Sakura, her family or demons in general, and have set the whole thing up specifically so she could capture her (or someone similar) and exact revenge. She'd have kidnapped a bunch of people to feed to Sakura (to keep her alive and to allow her to heal her wounds so she can continue torturing her), used one of them to perform the summoning and then locked Sakura away in a magical prison, where she would torture her. Shirou would then find out about the missing people (possibly with some prodding from Rider or Rin) and go hunting for her. I'd say that Sakura would be torturd for at least a couple of weeks before she's rescued. In that time, amongst other things, Caster would use a magical spell on Sakura preventing her orgasming, and another spell that keeps her in a constantly aroused state. We'd see at least some of this whilst Shirou is going around doing other things.
When Shirou gets there, he'd confront Caster, and find out that she was holding a demon prisoner (and possibly why). Caster would probably offer to stop feeding the demon and to torture her to death, and invite Shirou to join her in doing so. He would refuse, initially thinking Sakura needs to be killed quickly but, seeing the state she's in (helpless, suffering horribly, crying for her sister etc.), he can't bring himself to do it, and frees her, taking her home with him to recuperate, and deciding to try to find a way to keep her alive without killing anyone. Not sure what would happen to Caster, but I'd like to see her end up in hell at Rin and Sakura's mercy.
Of course, Sakura is extremely horny (having been denied orgasm for two weeks), and seduces Shirou, promising not to harm him in any way. Shirou accepts, because she's a horny succubus and seducing people is her job, and they have mind-blowing sex. She also complains that she's hungry (he offers her food, but she says that she doesn't eat normal food), and he most likely offers to let her feed on him (of course, she wouldn't want to kill him). He ends up becoming very attached to her and vice-versa, and manages to get her to agree not to kill people in the future, and to try to feed on people who actually deserve it. She probably also takes him back to hell at some point, to meet her sister.
Also, aren't Succubi supposed to go and seduce people, rather than relying on being summoned?
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taking her home with him to recuperate
. Shirou accepts, because she's a horny succubus and seducing people is her job
way out of character
Also, aren't Succubi supposed to go and seduce people, rather than relying on being summoned?
they can.
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taking her home with him to recuperate
. Shirou accepts, because she's a horny succubus and seducing people is her job
way out of character
How?
Succubi are literally designed to seduce men. He gets all the benefits of that, he gets to relieve Sakura's suffering and he doesn't have to pay any price for it. What reason does he have to refuse?
Also, aren't Succubi supposed to go and seduce people, rather than relying on being summoned?
they can.
Well, that's one less-evil path Sakura could take, I guess, going out and hunting down rapists, murderers etc., seducing them and then draining them....
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he's a knight and logically they don't fuck devils and demons. character change has to happen.
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he's a knight and logically they don't fuck devils and demons. character change has to happen.
I see....
Well, how would we work that, then? Because Sakura is going to be seriously horny, to the point that it's causing her suffering.
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she'll have to suffer with it then
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she'll have to suffer with it then
This is supposed to be porn, you know....
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if it were just that then I would have made it a one shot, with a continuing story you need consistency
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if it were just that then I would have made it a one shot, with a continuing story you need consistency
Well, yes, true.
The point is that it could easily push him towards having sex with her, which is something we definitely do want to happen. At very least, she'd spend a lot of time seducing him, probably very aggressively (e.g. he'd wake up to find her giving him a tit-job...).
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I think he might reconsider the all demons/devils are totally evil but frankly it wouldn't easily change him to jump into bed with her. although i can see the last part.
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I think he might reconsider the all demons/devils are totally evil but frankly it wouldn't easily change him to jump into bed with her. although i can see the last part.
Well, perhaps not, but he might see that it is causing her problems. And, I don't think having a horny Succubus around is a particularly good plan. One possibility is that they could go see Rider, and then Rider could "relieve" her.
I would say she should definitely fuck Shirou, but possibly not straight away. Because, like you say, it's going to take quite a bit to convince him that not all devils are completely evil....
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that works. have to decide the other characters and their relations.
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that works. have to decide the other characters and their relations.
Yeah.
One thing we've not yet worked out is what race Caster is. Rin is obviously a demon, and Sakura's sister, I assume she'll be involved in punishing Caster at some point.
For the rest, I dunno. Who is even around?
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I assume caster would be a witch but otherwise human, Bazzet would be an elf, dunno about saber etcetera yet.
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I assume caster would be a witch but otherwise human, Bazzet would be an elf, dunno about saber etcetera yet.
Hmm, I was assuming Caster was an elf, but OK.
And, OK, fair enough. I don't know either, really....
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elf works, magic user definitely
figuring saber would either be like shirou or a king.
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elf works, magic user definitely
Yeah, makes sense.
figuring saber would either be like shirou or a king.
I thought they were all fantasy characters....
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I thought they were all fantasy characters....
I said high fantasy, not all the characters are monsters angel's or demons. some are human, need to fill out the rest of the world after all
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I thought they were all fantasy characters....
I said high fantasy, not all the characters are monsters angel's or demons. some are human, need to fill out the rest of the world after all
Yeah, true, I guess.
Anyway, what do we need to work out next?
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the other characters. taiga etcetera
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the other characters. taiga etcetera
Well, yeah, OK. Presumably there isn't such a thing as a tiger woman....
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it's high fantasy so a cat woman is possible...
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it's high fantasy so a cat woman is possible...
Well, that would kind-of fit Taiga....
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i think so too. as for the rest i'm thinking.
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Well, OK, who else do we have left to do?
I'd say that the normal people from FSN (Ayako, the track girls etc.) should just be humans (that doesn't mean they can't be involved, of course), and Saber I'm not sure about. Ilya should presumably be related to Shirou, but I'm not sure how. I'm also not sure where the guys fit into this, in particular Archer (since he's canonically another version of Shirou, I dunno how that would translate to this).
Also, I think we should try to flesh out the existing characters a bit more, whilst we think about what race to make the rest.
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that's fine i guess, but lets work on the characters, not their tastes
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that's fine i guess, but lets work on the characters, not their tastes
Well, yeah, sure. With Caster, though, I want to work out what she'd have against Sakura (either directly or indirectly). I also would like to work out Sakura and Rin's relationship etc., and how they generally act (being devils, but also being Rin and Sakura...).
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rin and sakura would act catty i imagine.
caster, could be a drow type thing.
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rin and sakura would act catty i imagine.
What do you mean?
caster, could be a drow type thing.
Eh, what?
How would that lead to her hating Sakura?
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they are sisters but competitive and willing as devils do to steal things or ppl from the other
caster wouldn't hate sakura, she'd just be growing power with her experiments.
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they are sisters but competitive and willing as devils do to steal things or ppl from the other
Ah, I see, so they're not particularly loving towards one another?
caster wouldn't hate sakura, she'd just be growing power with her experiments.
What?
My intention was for her to have kidnapped Sakura because she wanted to make her suffer, not to experiment on her. Hence why I was suggesting that she have some issue with either Sakura, her family or devils in general.
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i can't see a reason for an elf to capture a demon or devil except seeking power
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i can't see a reason for an elf to capture a demon or devil except seeking power
Well, like I said, revenge for something. Perhaps a devil hurt her, or her family. Although, if the elf thing is the issue, then we could just make her a normal human....
The problem with the "seeking power" thing is that it means she won't really be trying to hurt Sakura, as such, just to experiment on her, and that gets in the way of what I'm aiming for with the scene.
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it's not the elf thing just the magic user bit, summoning devils isn't something you just do, plus revenge isn't really viable, she would have become a crusader instead of a magic user.
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it's not the elf thing just the magic user bit, summoning devils isn't something you just do, plus revenge isn't really viable, she would have become a crusader instead of a magic user.
I see....
Well, then how can we make the idea work? I don't get how what Caster is doing to Sakura is going to get her power.
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i imagine draining her life force or such.
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i imagine draining her life force or such.
Yeah, but how does that fit with torturing her?
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it's magic? i dunno, magic is bizarre
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it's magic? i dunno, magic is bizarre
Well, possibly. I guess it could be some weird thing where making her suffer more causes her life force to be drained....
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generally having your life force drained hurts period
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generally having your life force drained hurts period
Yes, of course, but that's not really the point. Sakura sitting in a cage screaming because she's being drained of her life force is hardly erotic, or particularly BDSMy....
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just pointing it out,frankly you already set the concept up, i'm not worried about the mechanics atm, you don't need to worry about it, just figure out the scene as you see fit
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just pointing it out,frankly you already set the concept up, i'm not worried about the mechanics atm, you don't need to worry about it, just figure out the scene as you see fit
What do you mean by that?
The basic concept of what I want for the scene is simple, Caster captures Sakura and tortures her for a few weeks, in a sexy manner, before Shirou rescues her. I don't know what motivation she'd have for doing that, though, aside from it turning her on (she's a sadist, and I definitely intend for her to gain sexual excitement from torturing Sakura, and to use her as a sex slave).
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just ignore it.
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just ignore it.
Ignore what?
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the life draning think, as i said.
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the life draning think, as i said.
Ah, OK.
Well, then, what are you asking for here? Are you asking me to give ideas for the nature of the torture etc.? That's what it sounded like from "figure out the scene as you see fit".
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basically yeah.
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basically yeah.
Now or after we've worked out other stuff?
Also, how extreme are you willing to go with it, since she could be very rough, and do some stuff that you couldn't normally do without causing permanent damage (things like burning her, for example)?
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it's high fantasy so not that far. and later
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it's high fantasy so not that far.
Ah, OK.
What do you mean by that? How far is "too far"? After all, she is supposed to be pretty nasty....
and later
Ah, OK.
What do we need to work out now, then?
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what shirou's quest is, and who else he meets etcetera.
dunno, within reason.
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what shirou's quest is, and who else he meets etcetera.
Yeah, OK, that makes sense.
dunno, within reason.
What is "within reason"?
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hard to explain, i dunno, within reason just means within logical means.
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hard to explain, i dunno, within reason just means within logical means.
Well, logically-speaking she can do basically anything. Sakura is a devil, and therefore is presumably capable of healing most damage and surviving injuries that would kill a normal person, and there are no limitations on what Caster could have access to, particularly with her magic.
The only limitations on this scene, really, are what I want to see and what you're willing to write. There are very few things Caster actually couldn't do to her from an in-story viewpoint.
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ok, well you'll just have to try to pitch something then
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ok, well you'll just have to try to pitch something then
I would much rather know the limitations beforehand. It's really quite annoying to think of an idea and then have it rejected because of some arbitrary problem you didn't bother to mention before I started working things out....
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Do it in outline then and if the outline is good or bad you won't have wasted time on a huge idea
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Do it in outline then and if the outline is good or bad you won't have wasted time on a huge idea
Well, what do you mean by an "outline"? Plus, that won't necessarily be sufficient for you to see the issues.
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I think the ideas are best reformatted as one shots for now
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I think the ideas are best reformatted as one shots for now
Hmm, I see....
Which ideas do you mean? The whole set-up was somewhat geared towards being a full story, and I dunno how to turn it usefully into a one-shot.
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It's fairly easy to reformat them, but the issue of doing so is my problem so don't worry about it
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It's fairly easy to reformat them, but the issue of doing so is my problem so don't worry about it
Well, the content matters, though. What sort of stuff are you aiming for in a one-shot version?
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I intend on explaining things and adding the lemon content where appropriate
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I intend on explaining things and adding the lemon content where appropriate
Explaining what and adding what lemon content...?
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the world at large and the characters and whatever content fits
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the world at large and the characters and whatever content fits
I see....
Does that mean you don't want any input...?
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not zero but not massive scene input either
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not zero but not massive scene input either
Well, what sort of input do you want...?
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world or character input.
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world or character input.
I see....
So, basically, I can't suggest any sex scenes, but I can help you do all the difficult stuff for no reward...?
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yes, if you want to be bleak about it sure. I was thinking more positively then that though
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yes, if you want to be bleak about it sure. I was thinking more positively then that though
Well, what you said doesn't sound particularly positive, especially given the way you talked about BDSM before....
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involvement is a reward, but hey i just enjoy it period.
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involvement is a reward, but hey i just enjoy it period.
Well, it can be sometimes, but not when you're being told you can't discuss the stuff you're actually interested in.
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well choice is up to you
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I see....
Well, I'll help out for now, but don't expect me not to at least try to push it more towards BDSM stuff, because that's what I'm interested in.
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i want to make sure the world makes sense, i'm not worried about the sex aspect.
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Well, yeah, I am, though....
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why exactly are you worried?
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Because the porn is what interests me about this, and I know you are liable to cut out the porn I actually like if I don't get any input into it.
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world building doesn't interfere with the lemon element.
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Well, it affects what sort of lemon content is likely to be possible. And, like I said, I know that, if you're left to design the sexual content entirely on your own, you will exclude elements I like almost entirely.
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no that's plot building, not world building.
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no that's plot building, not world building.
What?
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plot effects the lemon stuff, the world building stuff does not.
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That's not really true. For example, a world inhabited by evil sadists and people who they hunt, capture and torture for sport is likely to have quite a lot of BDSM, rape and torture scenes....
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really you're going there?
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really you're going there?
No, I was just giving an example of how the world does affect the porn content.
Obviously this isn't going to be set-up like that, but the way it is set up will affect the likelihood of certain elements.
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fair enough, I do have a set up finalized for a few ideas including a gag harem thing and a sequel to as heretofore unwritten demon king shinji fic both having lemon
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fair enough, I do have a set up finalized for a few ideas including a gag harem thing and a sequel to as heretofore unwritten demon king shinji fic both having lemon
Hmm, well, the second one sounds interesting. The first one I dunno, it's possibly interesting, it depends on the content and set-up.
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you sure you don't have that reversed?
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you sure you don't have that reversed?
Well, "demon king" implies likely BDSM, whereas "gag harem" doesn't....
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fair enough. although I said sequel to the demon king story which is different.
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fair enough. although I said sequel to the demon king story which is different.
Well, yes, true, but it still sounds more liable to be BDSMy than "gag harem" does....
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i guess? neither is really planned that in that way or another content wise.
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i guess? neither is really planned that in that way or another content wise.
What?
And, OK, you need to explain the settings more before I can help write anything for them.
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the gag harem is a lemon which makes fun of the usual stuff and obvious has sex scenes with all the applicable characters shirou and archer certainly, not sure if Satoshi would be included (shiki is although he's with kohaku only)
and the sequel deals with the actions of shinji once he becomes the demon king.
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the gag harem is a lemon which makes fun of the usual stuff and obvious has sex scenes with all the applicable characters shirou and archer certainly, not sure if Satoshi would be included (shiki is although he's with kohaku only)
What do you mean "makes fun of the usual stuff"?
and the sequel deals with the actions of shinji once he becomes the demon king.
You need to explain this in more detail, I don't remember even what the "demon king" thing is....
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What do you mean "makes fun of the usual stuff"?
harem cliches and the like.
You need to explain this in more detail, I don't remember even what the "demon king" thing is....
shinji goes to hell, becomes the king of demons. the sequel deals with how a group of the fate characters deal with him after that point.
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What do you mean "makes fun of the usual stuff"?
harem cliches and the like.
Please explain more....
You need to explain this in more detail, I don't remember even what the "demon king" thing is....
shinji goes to hell, becomes the king of demons. the sequel deals with how a group of the fate characters deal with him after that point.
Well, assuming that is lemon, it does sound interesting. Demons don't tend to be overly bothered by stuff like "consent", and are rather fond of torture, BDSM etc....
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the demons aren't really fighters
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the demons aren't really fighters
Yes, and?
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capture is unlikely
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capture is unlikely
Oh, OK....
Well, then, where does the sex come from...?
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shinji and his demons and the fate characters doing each other.
-
shinji and his demons and the fate characters doing each other.
How would that happen?
Also, who are the demons?
-
nameless demons.
-
nameless demons.
Oh, OK, so Shinji fucking them isn't of much interest (to me, anyway), then....
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no not immediately so.
-
no not immediately so.
What do you mean "not immediately so"?
-
it being interesting.
-
it being interesting.
Well, in what way is it non-immediately interesting to me...?
-
well you said it yourself the demons are nameless
-
well you said it yourself the demons are nameless
Yes, I'm not questioning why it's not immediately interesting, I'm questioning why it would be interesting at all....
-
demons can shape change.
-
demons can shape change.
Ah, I see, so Shinji can create demons that look like the FSN characters...?
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create no, summon demons who can change yes.
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create no, summon demons who can change yes.
Ah, OK.
Presumably these demons have to do whatever he wants them to do....
-
Have to no, want to yes
-
Have to no, want to yes
Even if what he wants is "dress up like Rin Tohsaka and let me torture and rape you"...?
-
It's a status thing in hell so yeah basically
-
It's a status thing in hell so yeah basically
Ah, OK, then that does sound somewhat interesting....
-
I guess
-
Hmm, well, I had the idea of Shinji ordering the demons to capture the other FSN characters (or, at least, the female ones...) and them being unable to do so. So, in order to avoid his wrath, they instead have some demons impersonate Sakura, Rin, Rider, Saber etc., and hand them over to him. He would then proceed to rape and torture them as he would if they were the real girls, whilst the real girls are still happily walking around ready to thwart his plans (and fucking Shirou etc...).
I think that would be rather amusing....
As for the two ideas more generally, I really need more context to come up with scenes (especially non-BDSM scenes). The ideas are just too broad right now, so we need to work out a plot etc. to fit the scenes to.
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The haerm thing is mainly to make fun of the idea of a harem, like carnival phantasm did but with lemon mixed in and a few character nods like castko and the mc or Shiki and kohaku etcetera. The demon sequel is already mostly explained
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The haerm thing is mainly to make fun of the idea of a harem, like carnival phantasm did but with lemon mixed in and a few character nods like castko and the mc or Shiki and kohaku etcetera.
Hmm, I see.
I'm just trying to think what sort of lemon to fit in there.
The demon sequel is already mostly explained
Ah, OK.
Well, what do you think of my suggestion?
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It makes sense and doesn't hurt anyone so I'm okay with it
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It makes sense and doesn't hurt anyone so I'm okay with it
Well, the demons would get hurt, although they're doing it willingly....
It would definitely be amusing, though, particularly cutting from Shinji gloating about how he's defeated them all to them chatting, fucking each other etc.
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Jump cuts like that are tacky
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Jump cuts like that are tacky
Oh, OK, fair enough.
The basic concept still works, though. Shinji is torturing, raping and "breaking" demons that look like them (he'd particularly have fun with "Sakura" and "Rin", I suspect) whilst they're plotting how to overthrow him and having sex with each other.
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I should note Shinji is not an egotistical dick an more. He has an ego but it's not fixated on the usual suspects and it's mostly deserved rather then in canon where his ego is a psychological detriment
-
I should note Shinji is not an egotistical dick an more. He has an ego but it's not fixated on the usual suspects and it's mostly deserved rather then in canon where his ego is a psychological detriment
I see....
Well, what does that mean for what I suggested?
-
It means that rin and Sakura aren't special
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It means that rin and Sakura aren't special
Hmm, I see, so he'd want to abuse them all equally?
They are still sisters, though....
-
Basically, not sure what you mean by the sisters bit
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Well, he can torment them by forcing them to perform sex acts on each other, watch each other being tortured (or even help) and so on....
-
I see but yeah
-
I see but yeah
What?
-
Should be okay
-
Ah, OK, I see.
Well, what else is there to work on?
-
In what way?
-
In what way?
Well, something you want to discuss....
-
Hmm, well there are two ideas one is a school idea where the cast do shenanigans in the night time both magical and the under wear kind if it strikes. And the second is a servant academy where the grail war is a multiple city thing and the characters are more sports teams
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Hmm, well there are two ideas one is a school idea where the cast do shenanigans in the night time both magical and the under wear kind if it strikes.
Eh, what do you mean by "shenanigans"?
And the second is a servant academy where the grail war is a multiple city thing and the characters are more sports teams
Eh, can you explain this a bit better?
-
Mischief fights magical some things or another basically normally students during the day and at night the magic shows up multiple grails and the masters are like soccer team members
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Mischief fights magical some things or another basically normally students during the day and at night the magic shows up
Ah, OK, I see.
Well, some more details would be good. It's difficult to help you out when I don't know what you're looking for or what the setting is.
multiple grails and the masters are like soccer team members
Again, I could do with more detail here. What's the general intention of the story, and who would the teams be? Also, is this porn or not?
-
The first is collage type setting with all the fate tsuki and extra characters attending the same school in an amalgamated city with magic being a secret. And the second could be porn but at face it's a sports story where the different teams face off, for example fuyuki and misaki
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The first is collage type setting with all the fate tsuki and extra characters attending the same school in an amalgamated city with magic being a secret.
How is that different from FSN, aside from adding the Tsuki and Extra characters in?
And the second could be porn but at face it's a sports story where the different teams face off, for example fuyuki and misaki
Hmm, I see, so all the FSN characters would be on one team, and the Tsuki characters on another?
What sports would they be playing etc.?
Like I said, I really need some more details here. It's very hard to come up with ideas (aside from BDSM stuff, anyway) with the amount of information you're giving me.
-
It's situational as a change and it's important for the dynamic.as for the second the sport is the grail war, fuyukis servants contend with misaki's and so on
-
It's situational as a change and it's important for the dynamic.
What?
Like I said, more detail would be very helpful here.
as for the second the sport is the grail war, fuyukis servants contend with misaki's and so on
"Contend" in what way? And, who would be Misaki's servants? Also, what about the non-servant characters?
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Ever seen buso reken? Kinda like that, it changes the general dynamic for the characters so there's nothing stopping us from introducing character shifts, meet UPS friendships or whatever.as for the team biti haven't gotten too detailed into thing but contend in the standard way the grail war happens
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Ever seen buso reken? Kinda like that, it changes the general dynamic for the characters so there's nothing stopping us from introducing character shifts, meet UPS friendships or whatever.
No, I've not seen that.
And, yeah, sure, but I need more indication of what will happen to design scenes or characterisation.
as for the team biti haven't gotten too detailed into thing but contend in the standard way the grail war happens
I see, so it's like in Fate/Apocryphia, where there are multiple teams?
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What will happen is purely up to us. As for the second I guess, I avoid that like the plague
-
What will happen is purely up to us.
Well, yeah, but I'm not good at coming up with stuff like that completely out of the blue without any prompting. I don't even know what the goal is here (porn or otherwise), and I can't do what I usually do in a situation where I'm stuck (which is drop in random BDSM stuff) because I can't see any hooks for it here.
As for the second I guess, I avoid that like the plague
Well, OK, but it does seem to fit pretty well.
-
The goal is what we make it,generally a meet the characters thing is best to start with.
-
The goal is what we make it
Well, yeah, sure, but what I usually want from a fic is Sakura to be happy and lots of hot hardcore BDSM sex (preferably involving Sakura), although the two goals do admittedly tend to conflict somewhat....
generally a meet the characters thing is best to start with.
What?
-
In example shirou introduces the characters in monologue in fsn same sorta thing here
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In example shirou introduces the characters in monologue in fsn same sorta thing here
Ah, OK.
Well, that does make sense, but I'm not sure it's something we can do very much on here. We know the characters already....
-
Not what mean, it determines who he is,knows and how
-
Not what mean, it determines who he is,knows and how
Ah, OK, so what you mean is that we should work out the characters and their connections?
Yeah, I guess that makes sense....
-
Yes exactly
-
Yes exactly
Well, OK, then, let's do it....
What is the general concept of this setting? How did all the characters get to this school etc., and how does it differ from canon?
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Ok well, its one city rather than three,as such the characters have been in the same general area for a considerable amount of time, maybe some are finds, the super natural elements hold as normal. With such a list of characters I think Kiritsugu would survive. As well as I think Ciel would have saved Sakura. That's off the top of my head
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Well, that seems generally reasonable, although I'm not sure how someone like Arc would fit in here, since she's not a student and she's not from Misaki originally.
The Sakura thing also seems fine, but it does raise quite a few questions. For one thing, when was she saved (which affects whether Shinji was ever a dick)? Secondly, what happens to her afterwards? She could go back and live with Rin, potentially, but that would have to be set up. Otherwise, I'm not sure. Remaining with the Matous after being saved would be odd, although if Shinji never started abusing her it's possible. Ciel could also take her in, but she doesn't really seem like the type to take on a maternal role.
Also, what about Shirou? What sort of relationship would she have with him? Also, how would Kiritsugu remaining around affect his development?
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Arc would be hunting Roa as in canon, how that lines up here exactly I dunno.
I would assume sometime within Zero or else between zero and fate for Sakura, after purplification but before the rest of the terribleness
I would assume the church would take her if no one else given that ciel is her rescuer
dunno about Shirou I assume he would probably already know projection with Kiritsugu's help.
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Arc would be hunting Roa as in canon, how that lines up here exactly I dunno.
Ah, OK.
I would assume sometime within Zero or else between zero and fate for Sakura, after purplification but before the rest of the terribleness
Well, a lot of the abuse would have happened either way, because it started from the day she arrived, although Shinji wouldn't have been a dick to her.
I would assume the church would take her if no one else given that ciel is her rescuer
Well, yes, possibly, but I don't honestly trust the Church to raise such a powerful magus in a way that I would approve of, given their track record with Ciel. Plus, unless she's dumped with Kotomine (who would be even worse), she wouldn't be in Fuyuki (or the combined city).
The best solution is probably to return her to her real family, although it depends on what happens to Aoi.
dunno about Shirou I assume he would probably already know projection with Kiritsugu's help.
Yeah, quite possibly. I was thinking more personality-wise, though. Particularly if a Grail War or the equivalent happens.
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I intended zero to occur, with the exception of Kiritsugu to happen identically as canon.
I don't think Shirou would be too different other then Ilya being saved by Kiritsugu giving him a sister.
and trust or not do you have a better idea then the church given that both her birth parents are dead and rin was basically raised by Kirei, at least legally
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I intended zero to occur, with the exception of Kiritsugu to happen identically as canon.
That doesn't make sense if Ciel rescues Sakura, though. That would significantly change Kariya's actions.
I don't think Shirou would be too different other then Ilya being saved by Kiritsugu giving him a sister.
Hmm, I see.
and trust or not do you have a better idea then the church given that both her birth parents are dead and rin was basically raised by Kirei, at least legally
Not obviously, but the Church seems like a terrible idea to me. Aside from her not having any real parents or family, there's no reason she'd be in the area. And, they aren't generally the sort of people who I would trust to raise a kid, they just seem to see people as tools, especially a powerful magus.
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That doesn't make sense if Ciel rescues Sakura, though. That would significantly change Kariya's actions.
it means the rescue happens post war.
but the Church seems like a terrible idea to me. Aside from her not having any real parents or family, there's no reason she'd be in the area. And, they aren't generally the sort of people who I would trust to raise a kid, they just seem to see people as tools, especially a powerful magus.
the church is more then that.
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That doesn't make sense if Ciel rescues Sakura, though. That would significantly change Kariya's actions.
it means the rescue happens post war.
Ah, OK.
but the Church seems like a terrible idea to me. Aside from her not having any real parents or family, there's no reason she'd be in the area. And, they aren't generally the sort of people who I would trust to raise a kid, they just seem to see people as tools, especially a powerful magus.
the church is more then that.
Well, yeah, sure, but the issue with them not being in the area still holds true.
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Well, yeah, sure, but the issue with them not being in the area still holds true.
she'd be with kirei
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Well, yeah, sure, but the issue with them not being in the area still holds true.
she'd be with kirei
Erm, but Kirei's idea of how to treat an orphan is to lock them up in the basement and let Gil feed off them....
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normally but not in sakura's case.
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normally but not in sakura's case.
Why would she be different?
And, how would he raise her? He's not someone who is generally inclined towards raising children, after all, and certainly not in a nice way. Indeed, where would she live?
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Sakura is markedly different then normal kids remember she's Rin's sister which means kotomine would as per canon take advantage of that to revel in the suffering
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Sakura is markedly different then normal kids remember she's Rin's sister which means kotomine would as per canon take advantage of that to revel in the suffering
Well, yes, true. That's hardly good for Sakura, though, or for Rin for that matter....
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to a point, although it makes it interesting
-
to a point, although it makes it interesting
Well, it depends what you mean by "interesting"....
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different from the usual, open to interesting developments.
-
different from the usual, open to interesting developments.
Yes, I mean what the effect of it would be. In particular, how would Kotomine be treating Sakura, and what would her relationship with Rin be?
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I imagine like Rin except that he'd have her as a sister in the church.
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I imagine like Rin except that he'd have her as a sister in the church.
Well, the difference is that Rin doesn't actually live with him, and sees him relatively rarely. Which is what is somewhat worrying here, because him taking full-time care of Sakura isn't really that big a step above Zouken doing so.
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true still it's not that bad.
-
true still it's not that bad.
Well, I wouldn't be so sure....
What I'm worried about is him trolling Sakura to the point of causing more permanent damage than even Zouken could manage.
-
Sakura's not naive to that extent.
-
Sakura's not naive to that extent.
Well, no, true. Still, being raised by Kotomine sounds odd. Not to mention that, if he can't gain a lot of trolling potential from doing so, he just won't bother.
-
i doubt that
-
i doubt that
What?
-
that he'll find little material ripe for trolling.
-
that he'll find little material ripe for trolling.
Well, no, but that hardly implies anything good on Sakura's part....
-
it IS the nasuverse
-
it IS the nasuverse
Well, yes, true, and it's not like Sakura's canon situation is brilliant. At least with Kotomine as her guardian she is free to leave once she's an adult....
-
exactly.
-
Hmm, the one big problem I can see is with Shirou. I can't imagine a girl adopted by Kotomine being friends with Shirou whilst Kiritsugu is alive, and I would want them to have some sort of relationship like in canon.
-
not as kids maybe but that's ok.
-
not as kids maybe but that's ok.
Well, even as she gets older I would imagine Kiritsugu wouldn't be overly pleased with the idea of Shirou being friends with Kotomine's daughter....
-
and?
-
and?
Well, that implies no friendship and definitely no visiting the house like in canon....
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not true, it just means it would be different then canon.
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not true, it just means it would be different then canon.
What do you mean?
-
Sakura being raised by Kotomine could be a very interesting idea.
Not to mention if he decides to raise her as an Executioner, plus there's the whole lack of worm rape right?
Also Kotomine would have plenty of trolling opportunity as well. He can turn Sakura against Rin, which would hurt Rin, and when Sakura mentions going to school with an idiot named Emiya Shirou, who says Kotomine wouldn't send her to spy on him?
Maybe even seduce him to bring both of them misery. Which would also make Rin miserable as well.
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Sakura being raised by Kotomine could be a very interesting idea.
Not to mention if he decides to raise her as an Executioner, plus there's the whole lack of worm rape right?
Also Kotomine would have plenty of trolling opportunity as well. He can turn Sakura against Rin, which would hurt Rin, and when Sakura mentions going to school with an idiot named Emiya Shirou, who says Kotomine wouldn't send her to spy on him?
Maybe even seduce him to bring both of them misery. Which would also make Rin miserable as well.
fantastic as a plot set up i like it.
what do you guys think we should do with the servants and fan characters like Archerko? oh and just for the hell of it, should we have gender swaps (with other backgrounds) around in the setting?
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Rin needs her EMIYA so that shouldn't be a pairing that would be disrupted.
Plus if Kotomine has raised Sakura and she gets command spells, she's going to summon a different Servant than Rider. Or at least Medusa Rider. Maybe she summons Joan of Arc.
-
well the servants are still servants, but i meant what they should do during the day in general while the kids are at school.
that could work, although only red head joan, no blonde.
-
Well, I assume that Archer is going to follow Rin at school and be a bit of a body guard.
Joan would be at the church, trying to save Kirei's soul.
-
makes sense i think archer and joan are spot on, should ciel be a teacher?
-
Sakura being raised by Kotomine could be a very interesting idea.
Not to mention if he decides to raise her as an Executioner, plus there's the whole lack of worm rape right?
Well, it wouldn't have worm rape, but certainly plenty of mind rape, given Kotomine's nature.
That's the main thing I'm worried about, that he'd actually manage to turn Sakura into someone I wouldn't be too fond of. Parents have a hell of a lot of influence over their child, after all.
Also Kotomine would have plenty of trolling opportunity as well. He can turn Sakura against Rin, which would hurt Rin
Well, yes, definitely. He would certainly try to turn the sisters against one another, although I'm not sure how exactly he'd accomplish that, and it would certainly have to fail at some point.
and when Sakura mentions going to school with an idiot named Emiya Shirou, who says Kotomine wouldn't send her to spy on him?
Well, yeah, he would. The problem is that Kiritsugu (who Lantz thinks would be alive here) would see straight through that.
Maybe even seduce him to bring both of them misery. Which would also make Rin miserable as well.
Not sure how that makes them miserable....
what do you guys think we should do with the servants and fan characters like Archerko? oh and just for the hell of it, should we have gender swaps (with other backgrounds) around in the setting?
I think having gender swaps around as well would be a bit odd, althugh maybe one or two might not be so bad.
well the servants are still servants, but i meant what they should do during the day in general while the kids are at school.
Well, what they do in canon, presumably....
that could work, although only red head joan, no blonde.
Aww, but that means Rider won't be around, and I like Rider, especially when it comes to porn....
makes sense i think archer and joan are spot on, should ciel be a teacher?
Well, my issue is Rider. I really would like her to be around, especially since this is going to have porn. And, really, I'm not overly fond of there being another Saber clone....
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That's the main thing I'm worried about, that he'd actually manage to turn Sakura into someone I wouldn't be too fond of.
with Ciel and joan around I doubt that.
Well, yeah, he would. The problem is that Kiritsugu (who Lantz thinks would be alive here) would see straight through that.
not an issue really, Shirou can have friends without Kiritsugu's permission.
I think having gender swaps around as well would be a bit odd, althugh maybe one or two might not be so bad.
I just wanted the fun ones around
Well, what they do in canon, presumably....
so a whole lot of nothing then.
Aww, but that means Rider won't be around, and I like Rider, especially when it comes to porn....
not true.
Well, my issue is Rider. I really would like her to be around, especially since this is going to have porn. And, really, I'm not overly fond of there being another Saber clone....
what clone?
-
That's the main thing I'm worried about, that he'd actually manage to turn Sakura into someone I wouldn't be too fond of.
with Ciel and joan around I doubt that.
Well, possibly. And, I guess Rin would still be around, even if Kotomine would be doing his best to turn Sakura against her.
How Rin would treat her is an interesting question, actually. Here she has an actual excuse to interact with her, and also probably has more reason than in canon to be worried about her guardian (since she doesn't trust Kotomine one bit). At the same time, though, Sakura won't be emotionally dead like she is canonically, and nor will she have Shinji abusing her.
Well, yeah, he would. The problem is that Kiritsugu (who Lantz thinks would be alive here) would see straight through that.
not an issue really, Shirou can have friends without Kiritsugu's permission.
Sure, but I suspect Kiritsugu might object to her visiting....
I think having gender swaps around as well would be a bit odd, althugh maybe one or two might not be so bad.
I just wanted the fun ones around
Well, it's probably doable, but I think we should avoid adding them for the sake of it. If you have an actual reason to want one of them around and they fit somewhat I don't see a problem.
Well, what they do in canon, presumably....
so a whole lot of nothing then.
Well, unless the whole Grail War concept is very different, I don't see them doing anything other than watching over their master or resting to conserve energy.
Aww, but that means Rider won't be around, and I like Rider, especially when it comes to porn....
not true.
Well, how will she be around, then?
Well, my issue is Rider. I really would like her to be around, especially since this is going to have porn. And, really, I'm not overly fond of there being another Saber clone....
what clone?
Have you not seen Joan...?
-
Sure, but I suspect Kiritsugu might object to her visiting....
the reason she started in canon was that shirou got hurt, I doubt between kiritsugu and Ilya she'd have a reason to start visits anyways.
Well, it's probably doable, but I think we should avoid adding them for the sake of it. If you have an actual reason to want one of them around and they fit somewhat I don't see a problem.
to fill out the town, add comedy etcetera, that's why i said the fun ones.
Well, how will she be around, then?
summoned by another master slash method.
Have you not seen Joan...?
you mean the fail that is nasu's version? yes but if you read my post I state clearly red head will be here as in history and with short hair too. so no clone. also you need to stop referring to things as X clone, as with joan you often get it wrong.
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Sure, but I suspect Kiritsugu might object to her visiting....
the reason she started in canon was that shirou got hurt, I doubt between kiritsugu and Ilya she'd have a reason to start visits anyways.
Well, no, but what Elf said was that she would visit to spy on him.
I would like Sakura and Shirou to have a good relationship, and it's not obvious how since they're not in the same year.
Well, it's probably doable, but I think we should avoid adding them for the sake of it. If you have an actual reason to want one of them around and they fit somewhat I don't see a problem.
to fill out the town, add comedy etcetera, that's why i said the fun ones.
Yeah, I did say it would be fine as long as we don't add too many....
Well, how will she be around, then?
summoned by another master slash method.
Well, sure, but who?
That is an interesting prospect, though, particularly in terms of how she will act without Sakura to protect.
Have you not seen Joan...?
you mean the fail that is nasu's version? yes but if you read my post I state clearly red head will be here as in history and with short hair too. so no clone. also you need to stop referring to things as X clone, as with joan you often get it wrong.
Well, OK.
"Saber clone" is a pretty good description of all the Saber look-a-likes, though.
-
Well, no, but what Elf said was that she would visit to spy on him.
true. well it would be interesting
Well, sure, but who?
dunno yet
as for the gender swaps and fan characters which do you want?
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Well, no, but what Elf said was that she would visit to spy on him.
true. well it would be interesting
What would be?
Well, sure, but who?
dunno yet
Yeah, that's what I'm wondering.
How does the whole Grail War thing work here, anyway?
as for the gender swaps and fan characters which do you want?
Honestly, I dunno. It was your idea....
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What would be?
the relationship there.
How does the whole Grail War thing work here, anyway?
basically the same. except more then seven servants.
Honestly, I dunno. It was your idea....
well yeah, but that's why i asked your opinion first.
-
What would be?
the relationship there.
Ah, I see.
Well, yeah, it would be, but getting Kiritsugu to accept it is difficult. I would like Sakura and Shirou to be good friends like in canon, though.
How does the whole Grail War thing work here, anyway?
basically the same. except more then seven servants.
Ah, OK, I see.
Well, who could plausibly summon Rider?
Honestly, I dunno. It was your idea....
well yeah, but that's why i asked your opinion first.
Well, who were you thinking of?
-
Well, who could plausibly summon Rider?
depends on which fan characters and oc's/ alternates and genderswaps we include
Well, who were you thinking of?
not totally sure, gilko at least.
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Well, who could plausibly summon Rider?
depends on which fan characters and oc's/ alternates and genderswaps we include
I see....
Well, who are you thinking of as plausible summoners?
Well, who were you thinking of?
not totally sure, gilko at least.
Why Gilko?
-
Sakurai, Shinjiko, Satoshi (if we use him) Archerko (ilya) too possibly
Why Gilko?
funny, and hot.
-
Sakurai, Shinjiko, Satoshi (if we use him) Archerko (ilya) too possibly
Well, I don't think we should use Satoshi, and I also don't think we need Sakurai or (probably) Shinjiko. Like I said, we should avoid too many of the genderswaps.
Why Gilko?
funny, and hot.
Fair enough.
Like I said, though, we shouldn't use too many of them.
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Well, I don't think we should use Satoshi, and I also don't think we need Sakurai or (probably) Shinjiko. Like I said, we should avoid too many of the genderswaps.
ok then
-
Well, I don't think we should use Satoshi, and I also don't think we need Sakurai or (probably) Shinjiko. Like I said, we should avoid too many of the genderswaps.
ok then
Yeah, well, who would you want in there?
-
I have to think about it honestly, not worried.
-
I have to think about it honestly, not worried.
OK, fair enough.
Like I said, though, unless you have an actual reason to want them there, it's best to leave them out.
-
there's plenty of possible reasons, we just haven't finished ironing out other stuff so nothing precisely comes to mind.
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there's plenty of possible reasons, we just haven't finished ironing out other stuff so nothing precisely comes to mind.
OK, fair enough, then let's not bother with them for now, unless we find a concrete reason to include them.
What should we work out next? I think Sakura's relationship with Rin would be a good thing to cover....
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I imagine imperfect but social at least.
-
I imagine imperfect but social at least.
Hmm, so they talk to each other etc, but don't really acknowledge each other as sisters, even though, deep down, both of them would want to?
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basically.
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Hmm, well, how would it develop? I'd definitely like them to reconcile properly and acknowledge each other as sisters. Probably getting Sakura away from Kotomine would be a good idea, too....
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dunno exactly, probably happen in the course of the war/ supernatural shenanigans
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dunno exactly, probably happen in the course of the war/ supernatural shenanigans
Yeah, that makes sense.
How would the war work, exactly?
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much as normal
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much as normal
Ah, OK.
Well, what now?
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well talking about the servants and their relationships
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well talking about the servants and their relationships
Yeah, OK, that figures. So, what do we know so far? Sakura gets Joan, and Rin gets EMIYA, right?
What I want to work out most is who will summon Rider. I also do wonder how Rider might react with a different master, because she's in to some pretty kinky stuff....
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well without one of the fan characters or toshi i don't see a canon character summoning her
and yes those two get those servants
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well without one of the fan characters or toshi i don't see a canon character summoning her
Well, if necessary we'll have to include one of those characters. Honestly, though, I really don't like the idea of adding Sakurai, and I'm not sure Shinjiko really works as Rider's summoner.
I defintely want Rider there, though, so we have to find someone who can summon her. Can't one of the Tsuki characters do it?
and yes those two get those servants
Yeah, that figures. Who else are we sure about, then?
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Yeah, that figures. Who else are we sure about, then?
shirou and rin getting saber and archer
Well, if necessary we'll have to include one of those characters. Honestly, though, I really don't like the idea of adding Sakurai, and I'm not sure Shinjiko really works as Rider's summoner.
my versions do.
I defintely want Rider there, though, so we have to find someone who can summon her. Can't one of the Tsuki characters do it?
possibly kohaku maybe
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Yeah, that figures. Who else are we sure about, then?
shirou and rin getting saber and archer
Hmm, OK.
Well, who else would make sense, then?
Well, if necessary we'll have to include one of those characters. Honestly, though, I really don't like the idea of adding Sakurai, and I'm not sure Shinjiko really works as Rider's summoner.
my versions do.
Why?
I defintely want Rider there, though, so we have to find someone who can summon her. Can't one of the Tsuki characters do it?
possibly kohaku maybe
Hmm, yeah, that could potentially be interesting, although Kohaku with Rider is actually quite scary (particularly if you're Akiha...). I mean, combining Rider's devotion (and sadism) with Kohaku's desire for revenge is likely to result in some serious shit happening.
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Hmm, OK.
Well, who else would make sense, then?
bazzet getting lancer and Kojiro and caster either being absent or replaced with other servants
Why?
basically they split the victim duties
Hmm, yeah, that could potentially be interesting, although Kohaku with Rider is actually quite scary (particularly if you're Akiha...). I mean, combining Rider's devotion (and sadism) with Kohaku's desire for revenge is likely to result in some serious shit happening.
it's possible
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Hmm, OK.
Well, who else would make sense, then?
bazzet getting lancer and Kojiro and caster either being absent or replaced with other servants
Aww, but Caster is good for BDSM stuff etc.
Why?
basically they split the victim duties
Ah, I see.
Hmm, yeah, that could potentially be interesting, although Kohaku with Rider is actually quite scary (particularly if you're Akiha...). I mean, combining Rider's devotion (and sadism) with Kohaku's desire for revenge is likely to result in some serious shit happening.
it's possible
Well, I think it would be interesting to see the result, at least from my viewpoint....
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Aww, but Caster is good for BDSM stuff etc.
she doesn't fit here really, at least kojiro doesn't
Well, I think it would be interesting to see the result, at least from my viewpoint....
I assume so
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Aww, but Caster is good for BDSM stuff etc.
she doesn't fit here really, at least kojiro doesn't
Well, I agree about Kojiro, but why not Caster?
Like I said, she is quite good for the sort of things I like to see.
Well, I think it would be interesting to see the result, at least from my viewpoint....
I assume so
Yeah, I definitely see her using Rider as part of her schemes for revenge, which would definitely involve BDSM. Although, her capturing some of the FSN characters would be fun too....
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well ideally I doubt that caster's master would be chosen with the other characters here present.
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well ideally I doubt that caster's master would be chosen with the other characters here present.
Why not? He can always be killed off and her picked up by someone else.
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the grail chooses ppl it thinks worthy, given the characters present i doubt that fuck would be considered worthy
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the grail chooses ppl it thinks worthy, given the characters present i doubt that fuck would be considered worthy
I think that actually wanting to participate is sufficient, especially if we're having more than 7 servants. And, like I said, having him around means we get Caster, which is good.
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we still need a master to pick her up
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we still need a master to pick her up
Well, Kuzuki if necessary, or almost anyone else without a servant otherwise.
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I'd prefer not kuzuki, he's a bit dull.
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I'd prefer not kuzuki, he's a bit dull.
Well, OK, we just have to find someone else, then.
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hmmm, Akiha maybe
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hmmm, Akiha maybe
It's possible, although that would lead to a very interesting interaction between her and Kohaku/Rider....
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how so?
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how so?
Well, Kohaku is determined to get revenge on Akiha, and Rider will assist with that....
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that doesn't answer the question.
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that doesn't answer the question.
Well, Caster is Caster, she's not likely to just allow that....
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not following you exactly here, are you suggesting a fight or such?
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not following you exactly here, are you suggesting a fight or such?
Well, I'm imagining that Kohaku would attack Akiha a lot, yes....
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by attack you mean what exactly?
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by attack you mean what exactly?
Well, attempt to capture, most likely....
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Well, attempt to capture, most likely....
not really her style.
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Well, attempt to capture, most likely....
not really her style.
Really?
Surely she'd use the power she has and the fact that the Grail War is happening to try to take down Akiha....
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not directly, it's not her way.
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not directly, it's not her way.
Well, only because she has no way to do it directly, surely....
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Well, only because she has no way to do it directly, surely....
nope, she could kill her at any time in canon.
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Well, only because she has no way to do it directly, surely....
nope, she could kill her at any time in canon.
Well, wouldn't being in a Grail War give her more of an excuse, though?
And, if not, then what would she do?
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she gets a wish at the end, better to hedge her bets then kill an ally
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she gets a wish at the end, better to hedge her bets then kill an ally
Hmm, I see, so she'd treat Akiha as an ally despite her dislike of her?
Although, wouldn't she know she needed to defeat her at some point?
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at some point yes, not immediately.
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at some point yes, not immediately.
Well, yeah, obviously.
What would be her general intentions, then?
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wait for the right opportunity and strike
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wait for the right opportunity and strike
Well, I mean with regards to the war more generally.
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be the l.t. dragon
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be the l.t. dragon
What?
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lieutenant dragon, the main boss' right hand guy who turns out to be in fact the actual main boss when he/she beats the main boss in front of the good guys thus raises the stakes.
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lieutenant dragon, the main boss' right hand guy who turns out to be in fact the actual main boss when he/she beats the main boss in front of the good guys thus raises the stakes.
Ah, OK, so she'd work with Akiha for a while and then backstab her at some appropriate moment?
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you got it.
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you got it.
Hmm, well, is she likely to capture anyone at any point...?
Also, what should we try to work out next?
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not intentionally, akiha might maybe
Also, what should we try to work out next?
well recapping the servants we have thus far and whose likely to battle would be good
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not intentionally, akiha might maybe
Aww....
I assume Akiha wouldn't be inclined towards torturing/raping said captives (or giving them to Rider or Caster to "play" with) even if she did capture someone....
Also, what should we try to work out next?
well recapping the servants we have thus far and whose likely to battle would be good
Yeah, that figures. Although, we've not even decided the masters yet....
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no, Akiha's not like that.
Yeah, that figures. Although, we've not even decided the masters yet....
true 14 servants at start and we have only 9 masters
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no, Akiha's not like that.
Yeah, thought not, which is why I asked about Kohaku (who is more like that...).
Yeah, that figures. Although, we've not even decided the masters yet....
true 14 servants at start and we have only 9 masters
Yeah, exactly. I'm also not even sure who exactly is present in the school....
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the characters present in all three series
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the characters present in all three series
Right, so every character from Extra, FSN and Tsukihime, including the clones (Sakura, Rin etc.)?
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minus the clones
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minus the clones
Aww....
Also, who does that actually leave? Extra consists of servants (who will presumably need to be summoned) and clones, basically, aside from a couple of non-clone characters like Dan and Leo.
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well contextually sakura might work but not rin.
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well contextually sakura might work but not rin.
What, you mean in addition to normal Sakura? It would certainly be interesting to have her there. Extra Shinji would be kind-of interesting too, although I guess he'd still be a little kid....
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yes in addition to normal sakura, extra rin however is too complex to fit and extra shinji is pointless.
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yes in addition to normal sakura, extra rin however is too complex to fit and extra shinji is pointless.
Why is Extra Shinji "pointless"?
Having Extra Sakura around would be interesting, though.
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He's Shinji, no appreciable difference in the canon one and with Sakura not a matou it makes it more pointless because this Shinji will be not a bastard
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He's Shinji, no appreciable difference in the canon one
Really? I recall there being a hell of a lot of difference. Not least that he's eight, and just wants a big sister....
and with Sakura not a matou it makes it more pointless because this Shinji will be not a bastard
True, I guess.
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Really? I recall there being a hell of a lot of difference. Not least that he's eight, and just wants a big sister....
yes and no
True, I guess.
yes exactly
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Well, OK, we need to get back on track.
So far, we have the following masters and servants confirmed:
Sakura / Joan
Shirou / Arturia (Saber)
Rin / EMIYA (Archer)
Kohaku / Medusa (Rider)
Akiha / Medea (Caster)
So, we need 9 more master/servant pairs. I am guessing Bazett/Lancer will be one of them, and I also assume Ilya will be a master (although her servant is likely up in the air), but I'm not sure who else we would pick. For one thing, I'm still not 100% sure who would even be around out of the Extra crew.
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could still be berserker
and yeah go ahead and add them to the list
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could still be berserker
Yeah, it could, the question is whether it should.
and yeah go ahead and add them to the list
Well, you're the one who is likely to be keeping the list :P
But, yeah, that figures.
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Yeah, it could, the question is whether it should.
it makes things interesting
Well, you're the one who is likely to be keeping the list
it helps to keep it straight.
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Yeah, it could, the question is whether it should.
it makes things interesting
OK, fair enough. I was just unsure if you might want to replace him. Plus, logically speaking, if she's now living with Kiritsugu then she wouldn't have reason to summon Berserker, because that was the Einsbern plan. Also, having him with Saber as an ally makes them rather hard to defeat....
Well, you're the one who is likely to be keeping the list
it helps to keep it straight.
Yeah, definitely. This is your idea, though, so it figures you should keep the list.
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you certainly have a point about berserker, logically the servant under her would change.
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you certainly have a point about berserker, logically the servant under her would change.
Yeah.
And, like I said, we do have to be careful about making team Emiya too powerful. Putting Shirou (who is basically an ally-magnet, as well as a good fighter) together with Ilya (who is an insanely strong master) makes it hard to come up with much in the way of good battles.
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well i wouldn't call ilya strong exactly. and shirou isn't an ally magnet, just a nice person.
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well i wouldn't call ilya strong exactly.
In terms of supporting a servant, she's by far the best master out there, even including Rin and unwormed Sakura.
and shirou isn't an ally magnet, just a nice person.
Well, yeah, that's kind-of what I meant. The point is that he has no desire to fight people, which means he's not going to go out and start picking a fight with Rin, Sakura etc., and he's also a generally very likeable person. Plus, since he's the protagonist, Sakura or Rin going against him means they'd have to be antagonists, which I wouldn't want (particularly in Sakura's case).
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In terms of supporting a servant, she's by far the best master out there, even including Rin and unwormed Sakura.
yes true
Well, yeah, that's kind-of what I meant. The point is that he has no desire to fight people, which means he's not going to go out and start picking a fight with Rin, Sakura etc., and he's also a generally very likeable person. Plus, since he's the protagonist, Sakura or Rin going against him means they'd have to be antagonists, which I wouldn't want (particularly in Sakura's case).
i wouldn't call them antagonists
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In terms of supporting a servant, she's by far the best master out there, even including Rin and unwormed Sakura.
yes true
Yeah, exactly.
That's my worry, that the Shirou/Ilya team is going to be extremely powerful. And, since Shirou isn't going to pick a fight with anyone unless forced into it, that means that most people will be smart enough to stay away from him or ally with him, for self-preservation if nothing else.
Well, yeah, that's kind-of what I meant. The point is that he has no desire to fight people, which means he's not going to go out and start picking a fight with Rin, Sakura etc., and he's also a generally very likeable person. Plus, since he's the protagonist, Sakura or Rin going against him means they'd have to be antagonists, which I wouldn't want (particularly in Sakura's case).
i wouldn't call them antagonists
Well, they are by definition (the antagonist is just someone who opposes the protagonist). The point is, though, that I don't want Sakura, in particular, to be opposed to Shirou the whole way through, because I want them to be friends (ideally before the story even starts, but if not I certainly want them to be good friends (if not lovers) by the end). And, I also don't really want her to lose her servant too early on.
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Well I'm not sure it's a bad idea to have the emiyas as a strong force outright I mean shirou ran the table being considered a half ass as for Sakura losing her servant um what?
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Well I'm not sure it's a bad idea to have the emiyas as a strong force outright I mean shirou ran the table being considered a half ass
Yes, which implies he's going to walk it if he's not a "half-ass"....
as for Sakura losing her servant um what?
Well, losing her servant early on means she can't really fight that much.
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I meant where you got the idea of Joan of arc dying in the first place. As for shirou I think being a clear threat will ward off allies
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I meant where you got the idea of Joan of arc dying in the first place.
Well, from the idea of balancing it whilst having Sakura and Shirou remain friends.
As for shirou I think being a clear threat will ward off allies
Only if those allies are interested primarily or solely in winning the war, which doesn't really fit for Rin or Sakura (although Rin claims she is). And, like I said, I would like Sakura to be close to Shirou, which implies a likely alliance.
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He has saber, I imagine she and Joan of arc would get along like gang busters and why can't they ally if they are strong?
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He has saber, I imagine she and Joan of arc would get along like gang busters and why can't they ally if they are strong?
Well, they can, but stories where the good guys curb-stomp everyone else don't tend to be very interesting....
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True but I this as more character based then a straight up fighting story
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True but I this as more character based then a straight up fighting story
Well, yes, true. Even so, Shirou curb-stomping everyone isn't going to make for much of an interesting anything, particularly if we want the other servants to get any character development.
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Well there are fourteen servants, Ilya and shirou have to be allied here
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Well there are fourteen servants, Ilya and shirou have to be allied here
Yeah, I know. Ilya doesn't have to have an overwhelmingly strong servant, though. Hell, she doesn't even have to be involved at all.
Also, Kiritsugu is another potential issue, if he starts targetting enemy masters. Aside from the obvious curb-stomp potential, there's also a danger of him targetting someone like Rin or Sakura, particularly given Sakura's connection to Kotomine.
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Two points, first we need an alternative servant to Hercules then, point two kiritsugu post fourth is a nice guy, at worst he'd incapacitate masters
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Two points, first we need an alternative servant to Hercules then
Yeah, I don't think Heracles would be a good idea as a servant allied to the heroes. He's just too damn powerful, particularly if Ilya was smart enough not to summon him insane. Plus, like I said, it doesn't make logical sense for her to summon him (or, at least, it's not a certainty), given that it was the Einsberns who found the catalyst.
point two kiritsugu post fourth is a nice guy, at worst he'd incapacitate masters
Even someone who is Kotomine's "daughter"? Although, admittedly, her being friendly with Shirou would help her case somewhat....
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Didn't find so much as stole but you make a good point, still if you don't have an idea then we are a bit stuck for the moment, as for Sakura she's not kirei and if she kotomine kirei he don't give a rats ass
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Didn't find so much as stole but you make a good point
Well, OK.
still if you don't have an idea then we are a bit stuck for the moment
Well, yes, definitely. We can pick basically anyone, though. It would presumably either be someone Kiritsugu found a catalyst for or else someone who was compatible with Ilya, though.
as for Sakura she's not kirei and if she kotomine kirei he don't give a rats ass
What?
-
Compatible with ilya huh, hmmm, that is a tough one particularly given that her duplicitous nature is wiped all in this time line
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Compatible with ilya huh, hmmm, that is a tough one particularly given that her duplicitous nature is wiped all in this time line
Yeah, first we need to work out what she'll actually be like.
Also, why isn't Kiritsugu stopping her from getting involved at all? Shirou at least has the justification that he summons by accident, but what about her?
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You don't choose to be a master
-
You don't choose to be a master
You choose to perform the summoning. If you don't, then you don't get a servant (barring unusual circumstances, like falling into a magic circle...).
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Nah, there's something more to it then that, otherwise the system wouldn't work the way it does
-
Nah, there's something more to it then that, otherwise the system wouldn't work the way it does
I believe that it's been stated that the Grail chooses potential participants, and then the first 7 of those to summon a servant get one.
-
Who else would attempt it?
-
Who else would attempt it?
Well, yes, but the question is whether Ilya would....
-
I see her doing so to protect shirou if nothing else
-
I see her doing so to protect shirou if nothing else
Well, I can believe her wanting to once Shirou is involved, I'm not so sure Kiritsugu would let her.
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Von Einzbern, they don't listen to nobody
-
Von Einzbern, they don't listen to nobody
Lol, true, but I'm not sure Kiritsugu will give her much of a choice....
-
She's 19, Kiritssugu hasn't got a choice
-
She's 19, Kiritssugu hasn't got a choice
I'm not sure it quite works like that, particularly given that she lives in his house. It's just a matter of whether he can stop he or not.....
-
she's an adult, Kiritsugu won't be with her all the time.
-
she's an adult, Kiritsugu won't be with her all the time.
Doesn't he still live in the same house?
But, OK, I can accept that she will find a way to summon, although surely she wouldn't do so until Shirou had summoned Saber.
Also, what does Ilya look like here? Is she still a loli, or has she grown up somehow?
-
possibly, as for ilya's appearance that's something to consider
-
Yeah, with Ilya I'm not sure. Making her a loli causes significant complications with her living a normal life (because people will wonder why she's a loli), but delolifying her means we need to explain how she was de-lolified. Plus, it means she has to get a job or something....
Also, for another master we could have Luvia.
-
not really, other then people asking for id it won't stop her from living a normal life, there are people with conditions in real life that are the same
and luvia sounds good.
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not really, other then people asking for id it won't stop her from living a normal life, there are people with conditions in real life that are the same
Well, people will ask what the hell is going on (even more so because of the hair and eye colour), and she'd struggle to find a boyfriend but, yeah, other than that she'd probably be OK.
and luvia sounds good.
Yeah, it figures. Now we just need to work out her and Ilya's servant, and who the rest of the masters will be....
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Yeah, it figures. Now we just need to work out her and Ilya's servant, and who the rest of the masters will be....
a protective servant, perhaps one famous for a shield
-
Yeah, it figures. Now we just need to work out her and Ilya's servant, and who the rest of the masters will be....
a protective servant, perhaps one famous for a shield
Yeah, that figures.
Achilles, perhaps (technically not a shield, but he's known for being invulnerable)? Or Ajax (the one who had Rho Aias) would also potentially work (with the obvious implication that Shirou could copy it).
Which heroes are known for their protectiveness?
-
i don't either of those fit exactly
-
i don't either of those fit exactly
Well, OK, fair enough. Who do you think would fit, then (or, at least, what features are you looking for)?
-
a less directly violent hero.
-
a less directly violent hero.
Hmm, I see.
Well, "less directly violent" and "hero" don't tend to go together that well, at least in ancient mythology. It's hard to be a hero if you don't fight anyone....
-
greek heroes are blood warriors, by less violent think the peace makers like joan of arc etcetera.
-
greek heroes are blood warriors, by less violent think the peace makers like joan of arc etcetera.
Erm, I wouldn't exactly call Joan of Arc a "peacemaker". Her entire legend is based around leading the French army to victory against the English....
-
that's a point of conflict. i never said no violence, I said less directly violent.
-
Hmm, I see....
Well, OK, then who would fit with Ilya?
Also, who else can make a good master/servant pairing?
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Well rin and archer make sense as for ilya's servant hmmm, false servant could make sense
-
Well rin and archer make sense as for ilya's servant hmmm, false servant could make sense
What do you mean "false servant"?
And, yeah, Rin/Archer do make sense, but I thought we'd already included them....
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Like kojiro or otherwise fictional character wasn't sure about rin and archer, just checking
-
Like kojiro or otherwise fictional character wasn't sure about rin and archer, just checking
Well, that could work, definitely. We do still need to work out who, though, and I think someone like Superman or similar would just be silly.
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I meant clearly mythical and not historical, not straight fictional
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I meant clearly mythical and not historical, not straight fictional
Ah, OK.
Well, that definitely works, although I'm not sure how you distinguish between "clearly mythical" and someone like Gilgamesh or even Rider....