Author Topic: The Nasuverse in perspective.  (Read 19091 times)

The Man With All The Cute Boats

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Re: The Nasuverse in perspective.
« Reply #60 on: May 12, 2014, 10:32:35 PM »
Kat, leave.
No, Kat, you don't have to if you don't want to.

Lantz, Kat wasn't even rude.

And seriously, Satoshi is a guy who starts in depression at the beginning of his tale and through EVENTS breaks himself out of it and manages to fight and defeat something which might as well be the embodiment of the deepest part of his depression (Gilgamesh, as he took the things important to Satoshi away from him(family), as deep depression might end up doing to someone(through driving them away)), and once he does, he realizes he has a bigger foe to face afterwards (following the metaphor, this'd be real life and society) and manages to face and defeat(go through) it with the help of his friends, family and teachers, and comes out of it beloved and respected by those whose respect and love he wanted to earn(including himself).

Except in this case this guy's super powerful, has tons of gimmicks and is the son of two of your favorite characters from a franchise you enjoy.

For a guy who's not a self-insert, he sure doesn't seem to have fallen far from the creator's tree, +power and stuff.

lantzblades

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Re: The Nasuverse in perspective.
« Reply #61 on: May 12, 2014, 10:42:49 PM »
Yeah names it was rude, as for the rest, wrong on all counts.

The Man With All The Cute Boats

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Re: The Nasuverse in perspective.
« Reply #62 on: May 12, 2014, 10:55:22 PM »
Satoshi is your superimposed image in the nasuverse, made ridiculously powerful, wise and popular through your imagination, breaking through your depression before you did, having a legions of "interesting" adventures and great friends and a goal in mind he is driven to accomplish. He's not you, but you sure saw through his eyes and made him act the way you wish you could, through adventures you wish you could have, with people you wish were your friends.

He's not you, he's what you wish you were.

Brahmastra

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Re: The Nasuverse in perspective.
« Reply #63 on: May 12, 2014, 11:09:12 PM »
It's not even a Self-Insert. It's a Self-Idealization Insert. Some faux-Messianic supercreature that's so perfect and flawless and fantasticrino that it actually makes me want to hurl when I read about it.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2014, 11:11:59 PM by Brahmastra »

lantzblades

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Re: The Nasuverse in perspective.
« Reply #64 on: May 12, 2014, 11:48:00 PM »
Wrong again names.

The Man With All The Cute Boats

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Re: The Nasuverse in perspective.
« Reply #65 on: May 13, 2014, 12:01:15 AM »
You know that quote in Arch's signature? You are living up to it.

Back up your words with arguments, or accept it when people take your words' weight as if they were lighter than feathers, because they are.

Words are wind, and you are doing nothing but breaking wind all over your keyboard.

lantzblades

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Re: The Nasuverse in perspective.
« Reply #66 on: May 13, 2014, 12:37:31 AM »
Ok fine, I'll humor this train wreck of logic.

1) You're posting this nonsense in a thread that isn't for it.

2) you know fuck all about me, I don't mean that in a violent or angry context, I mean you literally know less than nothing about who I am. Case in point you created your theory out of a single flawed assumption.

3) I already stated when and how I use self insertion which further makes you wrong.

4) basically every last story point you got wrong in what they mean.

The Man With All The Cute Boats

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Re: The Nasuverse in perspective.
« Reply #67 on: May 13, 2014, 01:01:17 AM »
Ok fine, I'll humor this train wreck of logic.

1) You're posting this nonsense in a thread that isn't for it.

2) you know fuck all about me, I don't mean that in a violent or angry context, I mean you literally know less than nothing about who I am. Case in point you created your theory out of a single flawed assumption.

3) I already stated when and how I use self insertion which further makes you wrong.

4) basically every last story point you got wrong in what they mean.
1:Hi kettle

2: What, that you were depressed and broke out of it? You said so. Repeatedly. You also said that Satoshi was depressed during the sakuratini and all that shit. So what is my flawed assumption?

3:Self insertion is not always voluntary. It's like how people in games take the protag(Even if said protag has a different family or backstory as them) and insert into him to the point of being angry when protag is insulted, and yet will deny or even never realize the self insertion. You just inserted yourself into the position of "Satoshi". Who, might I add to previous statements, also has as job titles careers you view as "heroic" and idolize, to further the idea of perfection he embodies for you.

4:Are you familiar with the literary practice referred to as Death Of The Author? Basically, your opinion on what certain scenes in your writing mean or symbolize is unimportant, it's what the reader understands as meaning from it, or sees as its symbolism.

lantzblades

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Re: The Nasuverse in perspective.
« Reply #68 on: May 13, 2014, 01:30:07 AM »
1) just making the point, this stuff isn't in line with the purpose of the thread.

2) I never created or developed Satoshi while under the influence of depression. The story has nothing to do with depression aside from the two themes of the story can be associated with the recovery from depression among many other things.

3) I'm not self inserting, it's a nice theory but what I am annoyed at is not the insults to the character, it's the lack of respect for the author's right to tell the story.

4) that would apply if you weren't trying to deconstruct the story and prove me somehow narcissistic. Since you are however I feel it's my right to tell you that you've gotten it wrong ever step of the way. The lessons he learns aren't up for a death of the author debate here, they are solidly what he learns, not what you think he does.

The Man With All The Cute Boats

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Re: The Nasuverse in perspective.
« Reply #69 on: May 13, 2014, 02:21:24 AM »
4) that would apply if you weren't trying to deconstruct the story and prove me somehow narcissistic.
Objectively incorrect, it applies no matter what the author's thoughts or the reader's intentions. Literally the last sentence in your post is made invalid through it.

2)The character himself is depressed at the start of the story, medically depressed at least. You claimed so yourself. Was he really in the original, first draft of the story? Because stories change with time, and depression isn't exactly the best feeling to replicate without experiencing it.

3)The "getting pissed at insults directed at the character" was not the main point of my previous statement. What I meant was that involuntarily you put yourself in the place of your main character and made him act like yourself, were you in his place. The character became alternate setting you some part through figuring things out. This is partly normal, characters will always have some of the author in them. However the RP and statements made by you all point to Satoshi having your morals, beliefs, train of thought and even the knack of making himself sound unpleasant by accident. Combine this with his job set(most of them being jobs you consider "heroic," and you greatly admire these "heroes"), his abilities(Immortal, incredibly adept at healing and combat), his ties to your favorite characters, the respect he garners... things all point heavily towards self-idealization, even if it is involuntary. And yes, involuntarily or unthinkingly putting a character one does not believe he self-inserts into into an idealized, near-omnipotent state is something that happens.

Shirou-wanking is a prime time example for this. And despite news to the contrary, a lot of people self insert into Shirou. What helps is the first person aspect of it all, constantly being in his head, and the watering down of his character aspects in Fate, the route belonging to the most popular heroine and by extension the route most replayed. And people don't believe they self insert into him because "hey he's fucked up," they say consciously to themselves to deny themselves. And yet, Id, Ego, Superego.

You are doing the same multiple times over, idealizing what you've inserted into with great power, but as an OC, and with your mindset concerning the nasuverse (Hey, on thread topic!), you believe you have zero limits and made him unkillable and amazing and all stuff I've mentioned before.

And also, defending your character against people telling you he's bad is MORE likely to make you insert into him than before, because his is the role as someone being kicked down (by gilgamesh) and fighting back, just as you are fighting back against "haters".

lantzblades

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Re: The Nasuverse in perspective.
« Reply #70 on: May 13, 2014, 02:43:43 AM »
Yeah, I'm not sure exactly where to start here, firstly textwalls don't make you correct.

Satoshi is written as a hero, heroes are a perception. I don't write heroes as a subversive parody so yes the heroes I write share a view point with me in regards to certain aspects. That is a common practice in writing and does not indicate self insertion.

Satoshi was depressed in the original draft yes.

as for the rest, it's kinda laughable and more than a bit insulting.

RamKingSpaceSlamKatsulam

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Re: The Nasuverse in perspective.
« Reply #71 on: May 13, 2014, 03:04:51 AM »
For what reason.

lantzblades

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Re: The Nasuverse in perspective.
« Reply #72 on: May 13, 2014, 03:10:46 AM »
Leo that is literally the worst question, without context I can't answer it.

The Man With All The Cute Boats

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Re: The Nasuverse in perspective.
« Reply #73 on: May 13, 2014, 03:12:33 AM »
firstly textwalls don't make you correct.
Note that textwalls don't make me incorrect either.

I'll answer the rest once you answer Slam, so I can answer the whole of your rebuttal at once.

As for context:

as for the rest, it's kinda laughable and more than a bit insulting.
For what reason.
There.

lantzblades

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Re: The Nasuverse in perspective.
« Reply #74 on: May 13, 2014, 03:17:10 AM »
Well it paints me as an incapable hack writer with the mind of a six year old. So yeah imma laugh at it rather then be offended by the insulting nature of the assumptions.