of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.

[lantzblades]

I would say that they shouldn't be trained and be inexperienced when the war starts.

[Cherry Lover]

I would say that they shouldn't be trained and be inexperienced when the war starts.

Well, they wouldn't be well-trained, but Shirou would at least have a go at doing it. I guess them being generally inexperienced makes sense, though, and it also justifies him being a bit harsher, for their own safety.

And, other than that it looks fine? If so, then good, because this sounds like a pretty awesome idea.

[lantzblades]

well i think it works better minus experience, and I think that given the growing up together I would see it as the slave thing being a formality. which makes it more palatable, and then decide the servants summoned.

[Cherry Lover]

well i think it works better minus experience

Yeah, I definitely agree, although I do think Shirou would at least start training them once he found out about the war.

and I think that given the growing up together I would see it as the slave thing being a formality. which makes it more palatable

Well, that was the general idea. Essentially, they're slaves only in the bedroom, and then only because they like being treated like that. The rest of the time Shirou treats them as friends and equals.

However, since they are formally slaves, they would be treated as such by outsiders. Also, in a society like that it is inevitable that the education system would reinforce the system as it stands, because that is how systems like that sustain theirselves. So, they would  be constantly reminded that their "role" in life is to pleasure Shirou and do whatever he desires throughout their teenage years. Since he is someone they love (because he's always been kind to them despite the fact that he could use them in any way he desires, and because he's generally a good and attractive guy) rather than someone they are being forced to service, they are excited by the idea, and being dominated by him becomes part of their fantasies, and something they genuinely look forward to.

However, the nature of the Grail War means that he does need to ensure they will follow orders for their own safety (since he's far better trained than they are, and they are prone to making silly mistakes), and thus he gets them to agree to do so, with the proviso that they will be punished harshly (in a sexual manner, so it's not entirely negative since they enjoy being dommed) if they disobey him. They agree fully to this and are quite OK with it, because they know he is genuinely concerned for their safety, and won't do anything to them unless they really have fucked up (and even then won't do anything to cause them real harm).

Further, he also needs to implement a rushed training program for them to get them ready in time for the war, and that means he needs to be harsher, in the same way as a Sgt. Major in Army Basic Training is harsh. Of course, since they're in a sexual relationship with strong BDSM elements, that "harshness" manifests itself in that form (although, again, he'd never do anything that caused them any real harm).

and then decide the servants summoned.

Yeah. We also need to consider how Toshi will fit into this (since he's not going to be fucking Rin or Sakura).

Most likely Shirou gets Saber, but I'm not sure about Rin or Sakura, other than that Rider will be with Shinji (until Shirou manages to capture her).

[lantzblades]

Yeah, I definitely agree, although I do think Shirou would at least start training them once he found out about the war.

by training you mean sex?

they are excited by the idea, and being dominated by him becomes part of their fantasies

no dude, the idea of sex with him might be but not a submissive stance, especially in Rin's case.

Yeah. We also need to consider how Toshi will fit into this (since he's not going to be fucking Rin or Sakura).

true

Most likely Shirou gets Saber, but I'm not sure about Rin or Sakura, other than that Rider will be with Shinji (until Shirou manages to capture her).

how does that work?

[Cherry Lover]

Yeah, I definitely agree, although I do think Shirou would at least start training them once he found out about the war.

by training you mean sex?

I mean actual training, but sex would be part of it, as a reward or, in the case of some BDSMy acts, a punishment for failure.

they are excited by the idea, and being dominated by him becomes part of their fantasies

no dude, the idea of sex with him might be but not a submissive stance, especially in Rin's case.

Why?

That's kind of part of the point here, to have something that allows for BDSM scenes (although not exclusively such).

They might not be exclusively submissive, but I would imagine they would at least have a leaning in that direction (although perhaps Sakura would be more so than Rin). Even canon Rin isn't really that dominant in bed....

Yeah. We also need to consider how Toshi will fit into this (since he's not going to be fucking Rin or Sakura).

true

Yeah, definitely. Possibly one of the girls will get him, but that makes it hard to pair him up.

Most likely Shirou gets Saber, but I'm not sure about Rin or Sakura, other than that Rider will be with Shinji (until Shirou manages to capture her).

how does that work?

Not sure, possibly Zouken summons her. He has a mirror, remember.

[lantzblades]

Why?

rin resists being told what to do, it's a natural reflex, so she'd develop natural against submission.

Yeah, definitely. Possibly one of the girls will get him, but that makes it hard to pair him up.

one of which girls?

Not sure, possibly Zouken summons her. He has a mirror, remember.

i don't see her answering, heroes choose to show up remember.

[Cherry Lover]

Why?

rin resists being told what to do, it's a natural reflex, so she'd develop natural against submission.

Hmm, I see....

Well, that does cause a bit of an issue with what I was intending here, since I wanted the girls to be submissive and do a lot of BDSM stuff....

Yeah, definitely. Possibly one of the girls will get him, but that makes it hard to pair him up.

one of which girls?

Sakura and Rin.

Not sure, possibly Zouken summons her. He has a mirror, remember.

i don't see her answering, heroes choose to show up remember.

Hmm, I see....

Well, that's a pain, I really would like Rider here. Although, I guess she could be Sakura's servant and still assist Shirou in punishing her, at least once she's aware that Sakura consents to that treatment.

[lantzblades]

Well, that does cause a bit of an issue with what I was intending here, since I wanted the girls to be submissive and do a lot of BDSM stuff....

in character fights that on rin's part.

Sakura and Rin.

I see

Well, that's a pain, I really would like Rider here. Although, I guess she could be Sakura's servant and still assist Shirou in punishing her, at least once she's aware that Sakura consents to that treatment.

in this reality i don't see it happening

[Cherry Lover]

Well, that does cause a bit of an issue with what I was intending here, since I wanted the girls to be submissive and do a lot of BDSM stuff....

in character fights that on rin's part.

Hmm, well, possibly "submissive" is the wrong word, because it implies passiveness. I was thinking more that she'd enjoy being dominated, and "forced" into sex by Shirou. I.e. she'd still be firey and "resist" him (as part of roleplaying), but she'd like being tied up, spanked or otherwise tormented and then taken roughly. And, of course, outside the bedroom she'd still be her normal self (although rather kinder, since she wouldn't have been brought up alone).

As for Sakura, she would likely be similar, but a little softer. She'd also enjoy being dominated (probably even more so than Rin, and in particular she'd be rather more masochistic, and would enjoy reasonably severe pain), and would enjoy fighting back somewhat, but she wouldn't be quite as firey as Rin, at least in the bedroom. Outside of sex, though, she'd be just as assertive as her big sister.

Sakura and Rin.

I see

Well, I'm struggling to see who else could do it.

Well, that's a pain, I really would like Rider here. Although, I guess she could be Sakura's servant and still assist Shirou in punishing her, at least once she's aware that Sakura consents to that treatment.

in this reality i don't see it happening

See what happening?

[lantzblades]

Outside of sex, though, she'd be just as assertive as her big sister.

nope, socially speaking she'd likely either less or more so.

See what happening?

rider answering

[Cherry Lover]

Outside of sex, though, she'd be just as assertive as her big sister.

nope, socially speaking she'd likely either less or more so.

Why do you think that?

And, what do you think of everything else I said? Do my suggestions work?

See what happening?

rider answering

Hmm, I see....

You really can't think of a way to have Rider here? Because I would like her to be around....

[lantzblades]

Why do you think that?

just the way japan's social family thing works.

And, what do you think of everything else I said? Do my suggestions work?

well enough.

You really can't think of a way to have Rider here?

i never said that.

[Cherry Lover]

Why do you think that?

just the way japan's social family thing works.

Hmm, I see.

Well, I think it would be an interesting dichotomy to make her more assertive outside of sex, but  a little less assertive in bed (i.e. she will "resist", but not in quite the same way as Rin, and she is more into S&M stuff rather than being dominated and taken by force).

And, what do you think of everything else I said? Do my suggestions work?

well enough.

Hmm, so I can have Rin and Sakura as subs, just as long as Rin isn't just lying back and taking it? That sounds good, her just lying back and taking it isn't what I expected anyway. Plus, resistance is a lot hotter....

Of course, Rin and Sakura wouldn't always be the bottoms. Sometimes it would be more equal sex, and on occasion they would even end up domming. It's just that they would both very much enjoy being on the receiving end.

You really can't think of a way to have Rider here?

i never said that.

Hmm, OK, then what do you think would work?

And, we also need to work out who the other masters will be, their intentions etc. and their servants, as well as who Rin, Sakura and Shirou will have as servants.

[lantzblades]

Hmm, OK, then what do you think would work?

stealing the mirror and summoning her with say toshi etcetera.

And, we also need to work out who the other masters will be, their intentions etc. and their servants, as well as who Rin, Sakura and Shirou will have as servants.

yeah, dunno yet