Author Topic: character Q and A  (Read 74872 times)

Cherry Lover

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Re: character Q and A
« Reply #390 on: October 02, 2014, 04:13:54 AM »
I can't think of anybody who would read 40 chapters to find out why something shattered their sod.

Perhaps, but I think that shattering suspension of disbelief is probably more subjective than being dull is. Especially when it comes to fanfiction.

SINIB

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Re: character Q and A
« Reply #391 on: October 02, 2014, 04:18:13 AM »
I can't think of anybody who would read 40 chapters to find out why something shattered their sod.

Perhaps, but I think that shattering suspension of disbelief is probably more subjective than being dull is. Especially when it comes to fanfiction.
I'm going from the fact that nobody on bl really likes his fic currently, the only reason his Q&A thread there is active is because Blers are drawn like flys to drama. And if he released it all at once, that would be one thing. But if he expects people to have continued interest in following a fic that consistently breaks suspension of disbelief, and by the authors word, won't start explaining why until around chapter 40, and won't just drop it, he's out of his mind.
40 chapters would probably take years to get to, and that's when the plot starts getting into gear? You'd be hard pressed to find somebody who would stick with it.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2014, 04:20:41 AM by Sakura »

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lantzblades

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Re: character Q and A
« Reply #392 on: October 02, 2014, 04:25:07 AM »
It was requested by Kaiza as a point that I establish the world at large, that is why it's in chronological order and thus slowly revealing instead of establishing things in a different order which would make the suspension easier in general. Forty chapters is because of all the history that needs to be covered.

@Kuro

doesn't matter, there's no way to know she needs help before it's too late, besides that, Satoshi is far too different to reasonably be the same character with all the absences.

SINIB

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Re: character Q and A
« Reply #393 on: October 02, 2014, 04:27:03 AM »
Q:You didn't think satoshi would have to be modified at all when you decided to change the setting somewhat?

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lantzblades

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Re: character Q and A
« Reply #394 on: October 02, 2014, 04:30:31 AM »
@Bdoom

A: powers yes, personality no. Personality is key to a character.

SINIB

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Re: character Q and A
« Reply #395 on: October 02, 2014, 04:32:30 AM »
He can't develop differently but still be the same guy, at his core?

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KAIZA

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Re: character Q and A
« Reply #396 on: October 02, 2014, 04:39:03 AM »
I think the problem here is that you're mistaking "setting up a mystery" with "failure to establish a setting". The latter is the problem.
You can set up a mystery, or something suspenseful, that is discovered as the story goes on. However, before you do that, you have to establish the setting, so that we can understand what's going on.

This goes double for a fanfic, since you're working with an established setting, and the audience will be expecting that. And before you say "Oh, but then every story can only be a repeat Grail War" or something; that's not true. At all. So as long as you properly establish that the story is in the Nasuverse, you can have a magus from the Association fighting vampires on the other side of the world for all I care.

Let's just look at the first chapter as an example. Remember, first chapters are supposed to hook readers, catch their attention, even for a bit.
You start OK-ish, with some familiar names and setting up a mystery for the plot later. However, we have no idea what's going on. Normally, you set up the setting, so that we can have some basic understanding, then set up a mystery upon that setting.

Though, no bigie. You can still set up a mystery without us knowing what is going on about it IF we can have something understandable as a crutch. Say, introduce a mystery with Unknown Villain X in a flashback, but then continue to a scene with Shirou in the present. We know Shirou, and even if we go AU, this moment establishes the setting and helps us understand it, even if the previous scene made no sense to us.

And here comes the problem; the very next scene makes no sense to us. We don't know what the hell is going on, a lot of the characters we don't even know who they are, or what relationship they have; we have nothing. Nothing to cling to for understanding. This is the main problem we have here: you've failed to establish the setting. We have no idea what's going on, and we don't even have something to act as an anchor, so we lose interest and don't care about it.

It's not that what happens is absurd; it's that we have no connection to what's happening. If in the previous example I had Shirou suddenly pretending he's a superhero, silly costume and all, at the very least, if I work properly in his characterization, we have a connection to the setting there, even if it's absurd. But we don't have that here. And because of that, the hook fails.

And this isn't even taking into account the amount of SoD breaking.

That's the issue we have here. You can have your mystery if you want, but you need to set up the setting properly so that we actually care about that mystery. You can't expect us to wait 40 chapters just for that; nobody's gonna wait that long. People tend to at most give a story three to five chapters before dropping it. Some even less.

Without establishing setting, we will keep questioning everything we see, because it isn't familiar to us. It looks nonsensical, arbitrary. For example, several dead characters are now alive, and Servants now have physical bodies. Why? Is it part of the mystery? If so, why aren't we focusing on that? It's related to what we know, and it's obviously different from the established canon. So, of course, we're gonna want answers about that. But, nope; let's have space wrestling matches; that's obviously more important to establish than the differences in this setting from what we know.

So, no; don't confuse adding mystery and suspense with establishing your setting.

Also, by the way, don't use the multiverse thing as an excuse. Yes, the Nasuverse follows the idea of a multi-verse. But the Nasuverse already has some rules set in stone, which will never change no matter which universe it is. Because they are all the same universe; a different universe will not differ in how it works, it'll differ in how things happen.

Characters taking different choices, being born with different abilities, unto different families, different times and action...all of those factors can change, but they all still respect the universal laws set there. Magic will still be the same in one universe or the other, even if in one universe Shirou uses swords, and in another he uses lances. And every change has causes and effects, which HAVE to be taken into account.

lantzblades

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Re: character Q and A
« Reply #397 on: October 02, 2014, 04:39:49 AM »
No, who he becomes is based on that childhood. Without it he wouldn't be the same.

SINIB

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Re: character Q and A
« Reply #398 on: October 02, 2014, 04:46:09 AM »
Then go and reread kaiza's post. You can start with something establishing the setting. After all, the basic rules shouldn't be part of the mystery.

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lantzblades

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Re: character Q and A
« Reply #399 on: October 02, 2014, 04:46:21 AM »
At this point Kaiza I don't care, no one ever gave me a chance and I'm sick of changing the damn story, so think what you want but from now on I don't care. Fuck this, reboot sucks, not doing it.

SINIB

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Re: character Q and A
« Reply #400 on: October 02, 2014, 04:48:23 AM »
Lantz asks for people's advice
People give lantz advice
Lantz ragequits because he has to change the chronology a bit

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Kurogami

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Re: character Q and A
« Reply #401 on: October 02, 2014, 04:49:25 AM »
Illya knows she is going to die even before the war. Even if Altria goes poof and takes a few years to come back, you can say that Illya managed to stay alive somehow till Altria got back with the sheath. All you need is a how. I will literally give you ideas if you can't think of a way to make it work.

He is an OC, his personality is whatever you want it to be so if you want him to be the same basic character even with some events going differently, something that is unavoidable in a reboot, he will be the same character.

----

Reads all the new posts...

Goddamn it.

SINIB

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Re: character Q and A
« Reply #402 on: October 02, 2014, 04:52:45 AM »
Kuro: you didn't expect this?

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lantzblades

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Re: character Q and A
« Reply #403 on: October 02, 2014, 04:55:27 AM »
@Bdoom

stop talking and leave please. You know nothing about the works history and your constant jabs are unwelcome.

@Kuro

no, OC's are not liquid metal, I can't have him develop the same way without the same environment. One maybe two people could be beared but not his grandparents and aunt.

The Man With All The Cute Boats

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Re: character Q and A
« Reply #404 on: October 02, 2014, 04:57:36 AM »
At this point Kaiza I don't care, no one ever gave me a chance and I'm sick of changing the damn story, so think what you want but from now on I don't care. Fuck this, reboot sucks, not doing it.
Considering the amount of people who actually read your stuff, a lot of people have given you a chance (through reading your stuff).

So, literally, dismount from thy high, high horse.