Cross Effects: Rebirth (2.0) Discussion Page (OOC).

[lantzblades]

Edit done Elf, although in the previous post it wasn't working anyway.

[Cherry Lover]

Honestly, Knick, I think your Zouken is pretty clearly not Chaotic Neutral. The stuff he did to Sakura and what he encouraged her to do is pretty obviously squarely in "Neutral Evil" territory.

[Knick]

Shows you don't know what the difference between evil and neutral is.

[Umbra of Chaos]

Arguable. It wasn't done with evil intent and he probably saved the world, but he's also a bastard. That doesn't make him evil though.

[Arch-Magos Winter]

Edit done Elf, although in the previous post it wasn't working anyway.

You need to delete that and a whole mess of other shit man. Satoshi needs some serious work done on him. His weaknesses are bullshit.

[Cherry Lover]

Shows you don't know what the difference between evil and neutral is.

Yes, I do, and enslaving young children is very definitely "evil"....

[Brahmastra]

Shows you don't know what the difference between evil and neutral is.

Yes, I do, and enslaving young children is very definitely "evil"....

And Rider, someone willing to slaughter an entire city's worth of people for the sake of one person's possible safety has Chaotic Good, so yeah, no.

[Knick]

Yes, I do, and enslaving young children is very definitely "evil"....

Also saved the world by ensuring victory in the grail war by sacrificing the happiness of one child and a couple of lives. Would say that makes him obviously not evil but at the same time not good.

Hence Neutral.

[Cherry Lover]

Shows you don't know what the difference between evil and neutral is.

Yes, I do, and enslaving young children is very definitely "evil"....

And Rider, someone willing to slaughter an entire city's worth of people for the sake of one person's possible safety has Chaotic Good, so yeah, no.

Killing people to save a life (either yours or someone else's) is not the same as enslaving someone for your own selfish gain like Zouken is. And, I don't buy Rider being Chaotic Good anyway, I had her down as Chaotic Neutral.

Yes, I do, and enslaving young children is very definitely "evil"....

Also saved the world by ensuring victory in the grail war by sacrificing the happiness of one child and a couple of lives. Would say that makes him obviously not evil but at the same time not good.

Hence Neutral.

Except that his desire to win the Grail War has nothing to do with wanting to save the world, and nor was Rin winning it likely to endanger the world. So, no, that logic does not follow at all.

[Brahmastra]

Except that his desire to win the Grail War has nothing to do with wanting to save the world, and nor was Rin winning it likely to endanger the world. So, no, that logic does not follow at all.

>Implying Knick's Zolgen is anything remotely like the one in canon. Don't compare the two.

[Knick]

Except that his desire to win the Grail War has nothing to do with wanting to save the world, and nor was Rin winning it likely to endanger the world. So, no, that logic does not follow at all.

Did you read his backstory?

Cause you obviously didn't.

He different from normal Zouken. Which you could tell if you would read the sheet.

[lantzblades]

Zouken is zouken, less evil is still evil. My hope is that Knick embraces that fact in regards to Zouken.

[Cherry Lover]

Except that his desire to win the Grail War has nothing to do with wanting to save the world, and nor was Rin winning it likely to endanger the world. So, no, that logic does not follow at all.

>Implying Knick's Zolgen is anything remotely like the one in canon. Don't compare the two.

What he said about him before certainly makes it sound like that. If he wanted Sakura to just save the world then there is no need for him to force her into obedience and implant her with things that would remove her ability to think independently if she didn't.

[Knick]

Zouken is zouken, less evil is still evil. My hope is that Knick embraces that fact in regards to Zouken.

You know what his original wish for the grail was right?
 
It was a utopia for mankind. That hardly sounds evil.

What he said about him before certainly makes it sound like that. If he wanted Sakura to just save the world then there is no need for him to force her into obedience and implant her with things that would remove her ability to think independently if she didn't.

He does have some selfish desires, such as preserving the Matou. Which is why he is not good, but he not that far down the deep end to be evil. He does not wish harm on anyone but his enemies. Then again he does not care if random people do suffer, mainly cause it is not related to him.

[Umbra of Chaos]

Sakura is too soft to win a Grail War. Zouken needed someone who would be capable and willing to defeat the other masters. He could not afford to let a variable loose when all of the earth was at stake. He either destroyed the Grail, or everything dies. Failure was not an option.