Author Topic: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page  (Read 310330 times)

Cherry Lover

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #6030 on: April 30, 2014, 08:43:13 PM »
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So? Being the son of a commoner doesn't mean you're not a prince, if your other parent is the King.

Children from morganatic marriages do not have right to titles among European royal families, so Satoshi certainly is not a Prince.

Erm, no, that might be true in some areas, but it is notably not true in the UK or France, which is where the Arthurian legend was written. So, there is no reason to assume it would apply to King Arthur.


This was 100% the case not even a few hundred years ago.

Where you're from, sure, but it has never been true in the UK or in France, which are the two main sources for Arthurian legend. Plenty of English kings married commoners (Henry VIII did four times, with the intent of producing an heir through them).

Bastards in general were out of the line of succession, and having a kid with a commoner was pretty much the same thing.

Nope. Go and do your research. England never had any such rule against a royal marrying a commoner, and nor did France.

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Plus, saber is still technically married to Ginny, so yes, Satoshi is a bastard. He's out of the line of succession on general principal.

Again, no. Marriages end when one of the partners dies, and Ginny has been dead for about 1500 years at this point.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2014, 08:44:58 PM by Cherry Lover »

Umbra of Chaos

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #6031 on: April 30, 2014, 08:44:21 PM »
There is also the fact that the kingdom no longer exists.

RamKingSpaceSlamKatsulam

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #6032 on: April 30, 2014, 08:44:54 PM »
Pretty nice CK2 thread this forum has. 

Cherry Lover

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #6033 on: April 30, 2014, 08:46:10 PM »
There is also the fact that the kingdom no longer exists.

Well, yeah, that is a more relevant point, but he'd hardly be the first person to lay claim to being a royal on the grounds that he is heir to a kingdom that no longer exists....

Arch-Magos Winter

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #6034 on: April 30, 2014, 08:47:49 PM »
Pretty nice CK2 thread this forum has.

I know right, besides, I should go and make one.

There is also the fact that the kingdom no longer exists.

Well, yeah, that is a more relevant point, but he'd hardly be the first person to lay claim to being a royal on the grounds that he is heir to a kingdom that no longer exists....
True, but he's being a 20k year old fucking asshole about it.

Kat

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #6035 on: April 30, 2014, 08:49:33 PM »
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Erm, no, that might be true in some areas, but it is notably not true in the UK or France, which is where the Arthurian legend was written. So, there is no reason to assume it would apply to King Arthur.

United Kingdom did not exist when medieval reiterations were written.

Neither Englishmen, Frenchmen nor Germans who wrote them at the time approved of children from morganatic marriages being heirs

Englishmen started approving of them in 17th century

Frenchmen never.

Germans never did too.

---

If Satoshi can lay claim to Camelot, I can lay to Crimea, since at least I AM a nobleman. From a noble lineage hailing from Crimea, and with Genkhis Khan as a direct ancestor.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2014, 08:51:17 PM by AKatIsFineToo »

Cherry Lover

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #6036 on: April 30, 2014, 08:51:07 PM »
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Erm, no, that might be true in some areas, but it is notably not true in the UK or France, which is where the Arthurian legend was written. So, there is no reason to assume it would apply to King Arthur.

United Kingdom did not exist when medieval reiterations were written.

Neither Englishmen, Frenchmen nor Germans who wrote them at the time approved of children from morganatic marriages being heirs

Englishmen started approving of them in 17th century

Frenchmen never.

Germans never did too.

Erm, again, what? Henry VIII, who lived in the 16th Century, married morganatically four times, and with the intent of providing an heir. And his son did too. Your statement simply does not hold water, and you have no evidence for it whatsoever. And, there was never any indication prior to that that children from morganatic marriages were considered not to be heirs. It is simply not something that was ever held to in this country, or in France for that matter.

If you think it was, then provide a clear-cut example where it was forbidden due solely to the nature of the marriage.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2014, 08:53:50 PM by Cherry Lover »

Kat

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #6037 on: April 30, 2014, 08:53:18 PM »
That was in 16th century, so a century off and after Arthurian legends of medieval times were written.


Cherry Lover

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #6038 on: April 30, 2014, 08:54:23 PM »
That was in 16th century, so a century off and after Arthurian legends of medieval times were written.

You still haven't provided any examples of it being forbidden earlier, though. You are simply asserting that it was. And, it was never considered an issue for Henry VIII, he didn't have to convince anyone that it was OK (whereas he went to the extent of breaking with Rome to allow him to divorce his first wife) and no-one considered whether the succession would be in question.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2014, 08:58:39 PM by Cherry Lover »

Umbra of Chaos

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #6039 on: April 30, 2014, 08:57:30 PM »
True, but he's being a  16,438,356 year old fucking asshole about it.
FTFY

Brahmastra

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #6040 on: April 30, 2014, 08:59:07 PM »
How to become the British Monarch

#2 Dont be a Bastard. Guinevere is technically the queen, that would make Shirou a concubine/mistress, which makes Satoshi a bastard.

Basically, when it comes to being prince, Satoshi would be reffered to as "naturally dead".
« Last Edit: April 30, 2014, 09:01:36 PM by Brahmastra »

Cherry Lover

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #6041 on: April 30, 2014, 09:01:11 PM »
How to become the British Monarch

#2 Dont be a Bastard. Guinevere is technically the queen, that would make Shirou a concubine/mistress, which makes Satoshi a bastard.

Guinevere died 1500 years ago. Dead people cannot be queen....

lantzblades

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #6042 on: April 30, 2014, 09:02:14 PM »
No longer exists? No I think the country you live in exists, not that Satoshi is laying claim to anything himself mind you.

Brahmastra

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #6043 on: April 30, 2014, 09:02:15 PM »
How to become the British Monarch

#2 Dont be a Bastard. Guinevere is technically the queen, that would make Shirou a concubine/mistress, which makes Satoshi a bastard.

Guinevere died 1500 years ago. Dead people cannot be queen....

Satoshi's description has him die like 5 times. Dead people cant be princes.

lantzblades

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Re: Cross Effects - Sign Up, Discussion Page
« Reply #6044 on: April 30, 2014, 09:04:24 PM »
Losing battle, the home edition, it's not like Arch, Katsura or Brah actually have a say Mike. Satoshi is a prince.