How would X win in a fight against Y

[Umbra of Chaos]

Shiki killed her dude. Power levels clearly mean nothing in the Nasuverse

Li doesn't have MEoDP. He sneaks up on Arc and destroys her organs with a punch, and she regens then turns him into a bloody smear.

[lantzblades]

Perhaps true, you could be far less stern about it.

[Kat]

and Katsura, my point was power doesn't mean anything in the Nasuverse. And yes I'm one of the few people who actually read both novels 100% so I do Tsukihime. And the thing I call into question is how she got jumped. That said it's a discussion for another time.

It still means something because without MEoDP you ain't anything against Arcueid unless you are Gilgamesh. And Shiki still gets stomped because killing merely weakened her.

[Brahmastra]

Lishuwen's arms would literally fall off before he did anything resembling lasting damage to Arc.

[lantzblades]

Rather rigid thinking on the part of both of you, however, fine. I'll yield since it's pointless to continue this conversation no matter how interesting I thought discussion might be.

next up

Ayako versus Shinji

[Cherry Lover]

Well, under the assumption that Shinji doesn't have access to Rider or any other magical help, then I guess Ayako would probably be able to defeat him by shooting him with a bow and arrow from range. If they get close up, he'd likely be stronger, although not certainly. If he has the Book of False Attendant, he almost certainly wins by magic if they get close, but potentially not at range.

[lantzblades]

Actually, in hollow it's noted that Ayako is skilled with a halberd, so close range is likely her win.

[Brahmastra]

Rather rigid thinking on the part of both of you

The fuck? Rigid has nothing to do with it. It's simple fact that there's only about 10 Nasuverse characters who wouldn't get shrekked by Arc without issue, and three of those are because they have Mystic Eyes of Killing The Shit Out of People (and even those don't work on her entirely).

Ayako versus Shinji

Shinji wins if he has the Book of False Attendant, otherwise I'd give it to Ayako.

[Cherry Lover]

Actually, in hollow it's noted that Ayako is skilled with a halberd, so close range is likely her win.

Well, only if she happens to have a halberd to hand at the time....

Rather rigid thinking on the part of both of you

The fuck? Rigid has nothing to do with it. It's simple fact that there's only about 10 Nasuverse characters who wouldn't get shrekked by Arc without issue, and three of those are because they have Mystic Eyes of Killing The Shit Out of People (and even those don't work on her entirely).

Yeah, I have to agree with this. There are few people who stand a chance against Arc, she's just too strong.

Ayako versus Shinji

Shinji wins if he has the Book of False Attendant, otherwise I'd give it to Ayako.

Yeah, that sounds about right. The Book of False Attendant isn't that powerful, but it's probably enough to take down Ayako, even if you assume he can't call on Rider for some reason. The only possible way Ayako could win if he has it is if she keeps out of his range.

[Brahmastra]

Actually, in hollow it's noted that Ayako is skilled with a halberd, so close range is likely her win.

Well, only if she happens to have a halberd to hand at the time....

I consulted Jack, who's read pretty much every scene dozens of times for the sake of translation, about this. The only mention of a halberd in Hollow is when Liz uses one.

[The Man With All The Cute Boats]

Naginata

it's that scene at the flower shop with Lancer

[lantzblades]

Ok my bad, correct category, wrong exact weapon. I am however correct in spirit, Ayako has a pole arm weapon and the skill to use it. As such I think she'd pull that bad boy out and that would decide the fight and frankly I can't see a skill Shinji has or even with the false attendant how he would win considering this.

[Cherry Lover]

She might own a pole arm, I very much doubt she takes it with her everywhere she goes. So, it depends on whether or not the fight is one she has the chance to prepare for.

Even then, if Shinji has the book he probably could beat her. That shadow blade wall was pretty ineffective against Shirou, but I would expect it to work somewhat better against Ayako.

[lantzblades]

The premise invokes the use of all their tools at the beginning of the debate. If she had that weapon I'd give it to her, Shinji is, well not exactly bright. He's smart but his ego has him screw up a lot

[Brahmastra]

Ok my bad, correct category, wrong exact weapon. I am however correct in spirit, Ayako has a pole arm weapon and the skill to use it. As such I think she'd pull that bad boy out and that would decide the fight and frankly I can't see a skill Shinji has or even with the false attendant how he would win considering this.

Minus the part where the shadow blades he can use with the False Attendant would literally cut her to bits.