Author Topic: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.  (Read 44187 times)

Cherry Lover

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Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
« Reply #195 on: May 04, 2013, 04:33:30 AM »
It works not fond of how complex it gets but could be worse

Hmm, what do you mean by "complex"? It's not that complex, really....

Also, like I said, who do you think would be likely to be torturing Rider. Presumably it would be someone Nero hired....

lantzblades

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Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
« Reply #196 on: May 04, 2013, 04:36:03 AM »
From a plot stand point it is. As for rider's torturer I have no idea

Cherry Lover

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Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
« Reply #197 on: May 04, 2013, 03:24:54 PM »
From a plot stand point it is.

Well, in what manner? And, why is that an issue?

Anyway, I have a general concept for how this whole thing would work. It would start out with Rider as a servant/slave at the Matou household (not particularly well-treated, in general). She wouldn't like Shinji or Zouken, but would be friends with Sakura, because Sakura is nice to her (she'd also notice that something was not-quite-right about Sakura's general treatment). She would also be generally opposed to the Roman system (and, in particular, slavery), although not to the point of openly fighting against Nero (not that she could do so anyway).

However, the Matous would find that she was getting close to discovering something they don't want her to find out, and so would plant evidence of her planning to assassinate Nero. She'd be arrested and taken away to be brutally tortured and then executed, and Shinji/Zouken would consider her gone. However, Sakura would feel bad for her friend, and would send evidence to prove her innocence to Nero anonymously. This would result in Nero working out that she had been framed (which hadn't been Sakura's intention), and Zouken would force Sakura to admit her guilt, which she would agree to do to protect Shinji.

Nero would then free Rider, and offer her the chance to punish her fake accuser, and then retain her as a slave. Rider, who would be too angry at Sakura's betrayal to think clearly about it, gladly accepts, and Sakura is taken, in chains, to Nero's torture dungeon, where Rider would await her. Rider would then start torturing her very harshly, talking about betrayal etc., and gaining lots of pleasure from torturing someone who had caused her so much suffering. After a while, though, she'd start to wonder why Sakura had betrayed her like that, and would start questioning her (under torture) about her motivations and how she'd done it. Of course, she would get non-sensical answers and, eventually, Sakura would break and admit she wasn't responsible. Rider isn't sure if this is true, but still feels guilty that she might have tortured an innocent friend, and starts questioning her more gently and kindly, and investigating herself. Eventually, she's convinced that Sakura is telling the truth, but she doesn't have enough evidence to bring down a powerful family. So, she instead takes Sakura as her slave (freeing her from the Matous), and offers to let Sakura punish her. Sakura refuses, not wanting to perpetuate the cycle of revenge and knowing Rider had suffered already, but they gradually develop into a sexual relationship, with plenty of BDSM involved.

As for Zouken and Shinji, I expect they'd get their comeuppance at the hands of Rin, when she realises what they put her sister through....

Quote
As for rider's torturer I have no idea

Yeah....

Well, I'd think a guy would make sense, because that makes it different from Sakura's torture, and allows her to be raped.

We need to do a bit of world-building here, I think, to work out who will take what roles. In particular we need someone who would be liable to support Nero and also inclined towards being a torturer....

lantzblades

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Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
« Reply #198 on: May 04, 2013, 05:33:39 PM »
I skimmed the idea it looks generally ok.as for a male torturer I have no idea

Cherry Lover

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Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
« Reply #199 on: May 04, 2013, 06:03:03 PM »
I skimmed the idea it looks generally ok.

OK, good.

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as for a male torturer I have no idea

No, nor me, that's why we need to work out the world better.

I also had the thought that there would basically be two levels of slave. One would be normal slaves, who are prisoners of war, people who were sold into slavery (to pay off debts etc.) and possibly minor to moderate criminals. They can be forced to work, but they have at least basic rights, so you can't just torture them for the sake of it and so on. The second would be serious criminals who have been sold as slaves as an alternative to long-term imprisonment or execution. They have no rights, can be killed for whatever reason, forced to participate in gladatorial games (although normal slaves and even free people can volunteer) and so on. They don't tend to have particularly nice fates, since they're the only people who can be legally treated in this way. Since they're criminals, they also can't be freed without Nero's permission (unlike normal slaves, who can be freed at the whim of their master).

Sakura would nominally be in the second category (after the whole thing was set up) but, of course, Rider would be kind to her and, eventually, would probably find a way to free her.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2013, 06:05:12 PM by Cherry Lover »

lantzblades

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Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
« Reply #200 on: May 04, 2013, 06:20:23 PM »
If it was a frame up then I would think Sakura be given her freedom

Cherry Lover

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Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
« Reply #201 on: May 04, 2013, 06:25:18 PM »
If it was a frame up then I would think Sakura be given her freedom

Well, that's assuming they can prove it to Nero. Rider might accept her innocence, but if she reports it to Nero and Nero isn't convinced (which she might not be, since Zouken and Shinji would deny it), Sakura might end up getting taken off her and punished a different way. If she acts like she still thinks Sakura is guilty until she can conclusively prove Shinji or Zouken are responsible, then Nero will leave her alone and Sakura will be safe.

Plus, giving Sakura her freedom means she returns to the Matou family, which isn't good at all. Remaining as Rider's slave is actually a lot better for her.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2013, 06:26:19 PM by Cherry Lover »

lantzblades

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Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
« Reply #202 on: May 04, 2013, 06:28:29 PM »
Contrived that basically fails Nero's character as well

Cherry Lover

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Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
« Reply #203 on: May 04, 2013, 06:30:22 PM »
Contrived that basically fails Nero's character as well

Why does it?

And, like I said, aside from Nero there is also the fact that freeing her means she's a Matou again, unless the Matou family is brought down. Which is not good news for her at all.

lantzblades

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Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
« Reply #204 on: May 04, 2013, 06:31:40 PM »
Nero prizes people before the nobility that's why

Cherry Lover

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Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
« Reply #205 on: May 04, 2013, 06:34:31 PM »
Nero prizes people before the nobility that's why

Well, sure, but she still is going to need some level of proof before having them punished. Even if she might free Sakura, she won't remain with Rider and would return to the Matous, who do not treat her particularly nicely.

lantzblades

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Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
« Reply #206 on: May 04, 2013, 09:07:47 PM »
Her soldiers can get that and in the meantime Sakura would be confined to a  state room

Cherry Lover

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Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
« Reply #207 on: May 04, 2013, 09:27:20 PM »
Her soldiers can get that and in the meantime Sakura would be confined to a  state room

Well, OK, fair enough. I guess Shirou could be involved somewhere, too.

We still need to design the setting, though, so we can work out what roles the others will have.

lantzblades

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Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
« Reply #208 on: May 04, 2013, 09:52:28 PM »
I doubt it, logically  shirou would be in Saber's country working toward becoming a knight or having become one

Cherry Lover

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Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
« Reply #209 on: May 04, 2013, 10:01:45 PM »
I doubt it, logically  shirou would be in Saber's country working toward becoming a knight or having become one

Saber's country?