character Q and A

[SINIB]

how hard it is to research, formulate and execute a story this big.

Also, I'm not going to say this fic is bad, but the author worked hard on it, so A+. Fuck that, I'm going to judge it on the content, not the effort put into it.

[lantzblades]

@Bdoom

false, during my depression I got defense. Currently I'm trying to be inquisitive to understand feedback. My frustration seen comes from no one listening when I tell them they've failed to make sense and then insulting me for wanting a better explained answer.

you aren't basing it on the content because you, like everyone else are using material other than the work to judge it.

[SINIB]

@Bdoom

false, during my depression I got defensive. Currently I'm trying to be inquisitive in order to understand feedback. The frustration I've shown comes from no one listening when I tell them they've failed to make sense and then insulting me for wanting a better explained answer.

You don't take critisism if your responce is more than half the time to wait until you've finished the story to judge.

you aren't basing it on the content because you, like everyone else are using material other than the work to judge it.

false, I'm judging it on it's own merits, or lackthereof.
It never hooked me, I don't know or care about Satoshi and his friends, I don't see any reason to continue reading what appears to be just another OC heavy fanfic.

[Cherry Lover]

You don't take critisism if your responce is more than half the time to wait until you've finished the story to judge.

If the story explains it at a later point, then that is not an invalid response. You can't expect him to explain the entire story in chapter one.

[KAIZA]

Again, don't confuse "spoiling the mystery" with "establishing the setting".

[SINIB]

You don't take critisism if your responce is more than half the time to wait until you've finished the story to judge.

If the story explains it at a later point, then that is not an invalid response. You can't expect him to explain the entire story in chapter one.

He can't expect that answer to satisfy anyone either. Especially when ORT wrestling happens before he explains why justaze, irisviel, and the servants are around. And then says it will be explained around chapter 40. That's expecting years of investment in a story the reader doesn't care about any of the main characters. How is that a fair, resonable, or sane expectation?
For some examples: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/10559983/1/Purple-and-Black-Reloaded

Kiritsugu saves two children from the ashes of the Fourth Holy Grail War, and returns to Germany to bargain the truth for his other daughter. But perhaps the Magus Killer may have underestimated the Einzbern's ruthlessness... Rewrite of Purple and Black

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/10681187/1/Meeting-of-Fate

Arturia is put in Sakura's place! Read to find out about her life! AU, Sakura still in-story, don't worry.

Why should I care about lantz's fic, but not these other ones? Neither hook my attention, neither have an interesting concept, and neither is terribly well written. Why should I hold Lantz to a different standard than the one I hold everyone else to? Why should he get special treatment, while all the others don't get my time of day. People don't have infinite time, so why should I be expected to serially read something I am not enjoying, and probably won't until possibly chapter 40, most likely years into the future, instead of doing something I enjoy? Lantz isn't special, I'm just giving him the treatment I'd give anyone else. It's on him if his story doesn't interest anyone, not everyone else.

[SINIB]

Again, don't confuse "spoiling the mystery" with "establishing the setting".

and this. They are not the same at all. you need to have a foundation to build the mystery upon, or else it just collapses in on itself and ends up a jumbled mess.

[Cherry Lover]

Again, don't confuse "spoiling the mystery" with "establishing the setting".

Well, yes, I agree that the basic setting should be explained earlier, but not every question asked fits under that. Indeed, the questions Lantz has answered "wait and see" to are ones that would be spoilers for later aspects of the plot. When people have asked things like "why are the servants around", Lantz has answered those questions.

You perhaps do have an argument in terms of the story structure, but when it comes to the Q&A stuff I don't think there is that much of an argument, because the basic setting-establishing questions Lantz has answered when asked. The ones he's not answered are ones he feels would ruin the story if he didn't.

[SINIB]

Q:why do the servants have physical bodies?

[SINIB]

and please tell me why I should treat lantz differently from other fanfic authors?

[KAIZA]

For an example: let's say I begin my story with a man being murdered. Next scene, the main character begins with either "Last night, my father was murdered." or "Last night, a man was murdered."

Even though both lines are nearly the same, with just a few words swapped, they both establish completely different things about the setting; they both give us a different understanding of the situation the mystery's being built upon.

Hell, you can add another layer of mystery with the latter line; if I have the main character be like one of those obsessed cops, the latter line can mask his motivation. Either he's like that because of an earlier failed case with the same criminal, a similar case, he's just obsessive like that, or perhaps the victim was very close to him?

And even if I don't go for that second layer and use the former line, the mystery works just as well. The mystery is still "who murdered Person X and why?". It doesn't take anything away from it, while at the same time giving us some understanding to stand on.

That's what we're asking. Something to understand what's going on, a common ground, something to give us a reason to care for the story and be curious about the mystery it presents. As it is, there isn't any of that.

And, before you say it; no, just because it's OC-centric doesn't mean it's bad. I've seen a couple of good Nasuverse fics which center on OCs and/or go outside the known established stories. But what sets them apart is that, despite having no ties to canon characters and doing their own thing, they still FEEL like a Nasuverse story. They do an excellent job in establishing the setting and thus people can relate to them. It also helps they're very well written and thus enjoyable on their own.

[SINIB]

I completely agree with kaiza there.

[SINIB]

should I be following this fic too?
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/10686133/1/Dirge-of-Cerberus
Never forget no matter how painful is never forget you were born from flames. This isnt he story of Emiya Shirou this is the story of another survivor who wished to regain what had been taken from him. His existence would change the Fifth Hol Grail War, a different war, different servants a remake of A Cursed fate. Still Red Saber X OC

[KAIZA]

Also, it should NEVER take so much time to establish your characters.

Every single story out there establishes their characters on their very first appearance. Notice I said ESTABLISH; you don't have to tell us EVERYTHING about the character, all their powers, their history and all that flair. No, no, no...you just have to give us enough info about them so that we KNOW who they are. That way, we can become invested in them, and you can start peppering the other details throughout the story. If you've given us a reason to care about them, we will want to know more about them.

Notice how characters introduced early in stories tend to be better developed than ones introduced very late; it's for that very reason. When introduced late, you have very little time to add all the details, so they tend to either be reduced to just the basics (and if you're lucky, expanded later on), or outright dumped all at once. Their characterization tends to be rushed as well. On the other hand, if you establish your characters early, you have the entire length of the story to give more insight unto them and give them some good character development.

[KAIZA]

As an example, compare Rin's development vs. Sakura's development in FSN. (No offense to any fans)

Rin is introduced very early, and has the entire story to develop her character, to varying degrees. Prologue and Fate establish who she is, UBW gives her some development, and HF continues that development while also expanding her backstory and such.

Sakura, on the other hand...while she's also introduced early on, and she has some establishing moments, she has practically no (visible) role in the first two routes. It isn't until HF that we get to see some development for her, and unfortunately, even this had to share a spotlight with A LOT of other plot developments in her route. As a result, a lot of people tend to overlook Sakura for the other characters, who had been established in prior routes and thus (to them) seemed much more interesting.