Tsukumihara diaries (discussion)

[lantzblades]

More so we need to figure out the character path for shirou we want him to follow.

[Cherry Lover]

What do you mean by "character path"?

[Xamusel]

I think lantz means which route it'll go under.

For instance, Heaven's Feel, which may as well be utterly rewritten to account for better writing and to give Sakura (and Ilya) better chances of being with Shirou (I mean, seriously, do you even know how wrong it is to Ilya fans that she gets the short end of the stick 2/3 of the time?! Not saying I'm more Ilya fan than Sakura fan, to me they're equal in who I like, but I just needed to point out that issue with canon a lot of people have).

Oh, and set a tone that allows for consistency, like how HF Normal is consistent with the rest of the route but not HF True (I think the issue most people have with it is that it's not bitter enough while staying sweet... and that it's too sweet for the rest of the route).

Just what I think lantz means.

[Cherry Lover]

Well, I can't imagine that Ilya will get to be romantically involved with Shirou, since both I and Lantz would find that idea rather disturbing. However, I would expect her to be involved, yes, and I doubt she'll be killed off. I wouldn't want that, and I'm pretty sure Lantz wouldn't.

Also, Sakura gets the short end of the stick 2/3rds of the time, and even Saber doesn't get to survive aside from in UBW Good. Ilya is by no means alone in that respect....

Also, HF Normal is not more consistent with the tone of HF than HF True is. HF is about Shirou protecting Sakura no matter what and earning a happy ending for her, and HF True fits that better. Why the hell should Sakura having a sad backstory and crap stuff happen to her in her route mean she should have to get a sad ending?

[Xamusel]

*ahem* Let me re-iterate.

I was talking about that last point as from Shirou's perspective. I mean, in the whole route of HF, he is slowly killing himself one way or another. The whole thing about the route was not just his devotion to Sakura, it's also about his losing more of what made him... him. If you recall, he can barely speak to Ilya in HF True, and his motor functions are shot completely to Hell in that ending from his perspective... of course, he gets a Deus ex Machina to make him normal again, but that's by the epilogue.

Anyway, about the route's theme, from what I understand, it was mainly about suffering to let those you love stay safe, which is why it was supposed to be bittersweet for all the route. Shirou suffers more than he has to just to keep Sakura safe, which is expounded (is that the right word?) upon in HF Normal with him Excaliblasting the Greater Grail, which results in him dying after saving Sakura and, by extension, the world.

Keep in mind, though, most of my input here is second-hand. The others that have played the route would have more to say on the subject.

EDIT: No, I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, just stating an opinion of what I think the route's theme is.

[lantzblades]

By character path I mean which presented shirou do we want him to emulate  fate, ubw or hf

[Xamusel]

I vote option 4) All of the Above.

...what? Is it wrong to give Shirou all three of the canonical girls that are in the game?

Oh, if you were talking about personality, I think the All of the Above comment would still make sense. He needs to be a mixture of all three presented routes for this to work better.

[lantzblades]

I think they are mutually exclusive xams

[Xamusel]

*raises eyebrow* Oh, really? In what ways are they mutually exclusive, lantz?

As far as thinking goes, by the way, I think you need to look at your profile page. I left you a message there that I'd like you to read and give an answer to (note that I'm not telling you to do anything... just pointing out the reason why you need to look at your profile page).

Er, to get back on track, I was more referring to the personality of Shirou as seen in each route being merged together to make the Shirou we'd use in this story.

EDIT: Actually, as far as the first and third parts of the post, please disregard them. I spoke with KAIZA over Skype about this just to find out that UBW would be more of the middle ground in personality.

[lantzblades]

Each shirou has differences xams, from fighting style to look out on life and magic, tossing them into a blender won't work it'll just wind up with something unpalatable for all involved.

[Cherry Lover]

Anyway, about the route's theme, from what I understand, it was mainly about suffering to let those you love stay safe, which is why it was supposed to be bittersweet for all the route. Shirou suffers more than he has to just to keep Sakura safe, which is expounded (is that the right word?) upon in HF Normal with him Excaliblasting the Greater Grail, which results in him dying after saving Sakura and, by extension, the world.

No, it's about suffering to protect Sakura. If she ends up permanently depressed, then the entire thing was a waste of time.

Each shirou has differences xams, from fighting style to look out on life and magic, tossing them into a blender won't work it'll just wind up with something unpalatable for all involved.

Do you mean in terms of the girl he's paired with? If so, then HF would be far preferable for me. And, even if not, I definitely want Sakura to get saved.

In terms of the actual character development and personality, it's less clear. I think HF probably makes the most long-term sense, particularly for a story which intends to continue with all the characters in one place, since it means Shirou won't go running off around the world fighting things.

[Xamusel]

Look, I'm not trying to argue the point I was trying to make, I was just stating an opinion. We're all allowed an opinion as part of a universal right for freedom of speech.

It may be about protecting Sakura, but people tend to believe that the tone should have been less... happy, as it were. Of course, this is comparing HF True End to Normal End, because Sakura doesn't exactly get the happy ending that we know she deserves for what she put up with in Normal End. If I recall correctly, Sakura waits in Shirou's home for him to return, even 60 years after he died in the Grail War just to shut it down.

Of course, like I said before, not trying to argue my point here. Just stating an opinion.

[Cherry Lover]

Look, I'm not trying to argue the point I was trying to make, I was just stating an opinion. We're all allowed an opinion as part of a universal right for freedom of speech.

Sure, but the flip side of that is that we're all allowed to disagree with said opinions....

It may be about protecting Sakura, but people tend to believe that the tone should have been less... happy, as it were.

Again, I don't get why Sakura suffering her entire life should mean she has to continue to suffer in order to "maintain the tone of the route". That is just plain ridiculous.

Of course, this is comparing HF True End to Normal End, because Sakura doesn't exactly get the happy ending that we know she deserves for what she put up with in Normal End. If I recall correctly, Sakura waits in Shirou's home for him to return, even 60 years after he died in the Grail War just to shut it down.

Yeah, HF Normal is downright depressing.

The thing with HF is that there isn't really a middle ground. Sakura needs Rin and Shirou there to help her recover from her past and from what happened in the route. Without them, she's never going to live anything remotely resembling the happy life she deserves.

[lantzblades]

Just in the case of personality, and to be frank hf shirou is a bit too selfish imo to be the attitude we use for a series hero.

[Cherry Lover]

I don't think he is at all, particularly given that we do not, presumably, want him running off halfway through the story. HF Shirou is not "selfish", really, he's just more normal. He puts his family and friends above random strangers, but he still cares about both more than himself.